This many people showed up after they closed down all government offices and brought in people from IRGC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJWnu0t3GuU&feature=player_embedded

You’re the one hallucinating like the illegit president you’re so passionately defending. What “evidence” have you given other than the news feed of the IRI propoganda machine? Evidence my friend are the journalists, filmmakers, students, doctors and reformist politicians in prison. Evidence is banned newspapers, publications, books, and full control of the IRIB. Evidence is disqualification of reform candidates. Evidence is the missing one billion US dollars. Evidence is high inflation rate and the high unemployment rate. Evidence is life in Iran. Links to abstract websites and articles by foreign IRI apologists is not evidence. You’ve probably been away from Iran for so long that even a non-Iranian with frequent visits knows more than you do.

No government who is confident it has support of the majority feels the need to act the way the IRI is acting. Your “evidence” is nothing but a series of justifications. Where is the 24,000,000 votes Ahmadinejad received? I don’t see it on the streets of Tehran, Isfahan, Shiraz and Mashad. I don’t see it on the University campuses. Instead of Fars news you might as well start smoking crack.

“Who said anything about me being a Green or even an Iranian?!”

Ah! So you are not Iranian? No wonder you know so little about Iran! So I take my word back about you needing anti-hallucinogic medication (but that advice remains the same for Iranian greens because they hallucinate!); instead you need to learn about Iran before talking and passionately expressing unsubstantiated views about something you know this little about.

“The second it becomes difficult for you to defend the IRI you turn personal and go on a rampage calling me names and accusing me of most outlandish of things you can accuse me of.”

I never defended IRI for any wrongs that they may have done. All I said was that they had the support of majority of Iranians and that this claim of “fraud” was a bogus claim made up by the reformists and the West.

I didn’t accuse you of anything “outlandish” either. I said that you needed anti-hallucinogic medications and that was in light of wierd claims such as “shah could gather crowds of 100’s of 1000s in 1979″ or that I “justified” governments crackdown on the greens (I have always been against that, in fact I found it brutal and even anti-democratic) or that “people from villages were brought from remote villages to Tehran by the promise of sandwiches and beverages to participate in pro-government rallies” or that “Mousavi and Karoubi were under house arrest”.

Don’t make bogus claims which could be only the result of “hallucination” or PURE IGNORANCE and people won’t tell you take anti-hallucinogenic drugs.

It is either hallucination or pure ignorance, which one do you prefer? or I guess both would be “name calling”? Calling a Shiite cleric a “mullah” is not “name calling”, it is just a simple expression of truth!

“Very well… But it has now become clear to me what YOU are. You are probably some 40-50 year old Iranian expatriat who has amounted to nothing in your life outside of Iran. You were not able to make a good life for yourself and this has made you bitter. So you spend your time bashing on the “evil West” while defending one of the most horrific human rights offenders just because deep down you like the idea of someone like Ahmadinejad standing up to the America that didn’t let you have the kind of life you always dreamed of. Well grow up. Only time will prove us right or wrong.”

WOW, where did you get this accurate (!!) information about me? I guess from the same source which told you that Shah could gather 100’s of 1000s of supporters on the streets of Tehran in 1978? :-D

“Should the GM prevail I’ll be sure to come back here to see what kind of crap you’re saying then…”

Whenever you are able to bring any evidence in support of your claims first and foremost I (and I am sure everyone else on this site) will take you seriously, otherwise I am afraid most people will consider your claims to be the results of hallucination.

Who said anything about me being a Green or even an Iranian?! The second it becomes difficult for you to defend the IRI you turn personal and go on a rampage calling me names and accusing me of most outlandish of things you can accuse me of. Very well… But it has now become clear to me what YOU are. You are probably some 40-50 year old Iranian expatriat who has amounted to nothing in your life outside of Iran. You were not able to make a good life for yourself and this has made you bitter. So you spend your time bashing on the “evil West” while defending one of the most horrific human rights offenders just because deep down you like the idea of someone like Ahmadinejad standing up to the America that didn’t let you have the kind of life you always dreamed of. Well grow up. Only time will prove us right or wrong. Should the GM prevail I’ll be sure to come back here to see what kind of crap you’re saying then…

“Shah too had rallies where hundreds of thousands gathered to show their support for him. ”

My friend NOW you are starting to completely re-write the history! This is indeed one of the biggest problems with the greens, all of their arguements are based on fantasy rather than reality!
SHAH NEVER EVER COULD MUSTER 100′S OF 1000′S OF SUPPORTERS ON THE STREETS OF TEHRAN! (MIND YOU AT THE TIME TEHRAN’S POPULATION WAS BARELY 5 MILLION!)
IN FACT THE RESULT OF REFERENDUM FOR ISLAMIC REPUBLIC IN 1979 WAS >98% FOR ISLAMIC REPUBLIC AND LESS TAHN 2% AGAINST IT, MIND YOU THAT COMMUNISTS VOTED AGAINST ISLAMIC REPUBLIC! YOU CAN VERY WELL IMAGINE WHAT A SMALL NUMBER PRO-MONARCHISTS CONSTITUTED!

“Yes he called rallies of his opposition “illegal” as the IRI is doing now. The difference between …. To this day, as far as I know Mousavi and Karoubi and Khatami haven’t called for an overthrow, but rather reform.”

This part was COMPLETELY irrelevant to what I had said, in fact I am wondering if you are able to read what I wrote at all??? Let me repeat it again:

SHAHS GOVERNMENT NEVER GAVE ANY PERMISSION TO THE 1978 RALLIES, DID THAT STOP THEM???

“They are not jailed in Evin, but jailed in their homes and in the country. As they kept Khatami from leaving the country for Japan. Their offices are closed, most the consultants are in prison and they are on constant watch.”

I am sorry to say this but you are ranting. In fact you are hallucinating! Neither Khatami, nor Mousavi nor Karroubi is under house arrest! In case you don’t know, people were about to lynch Karoubi in Ghazvin, and had it not been for the interference the security forces to save him from the mob, by now he would have been six feet under the ground.

Now I ask it again:
KHOMEINI WAS IN EXILE AND HE HAD NO INTERNET ACCESS TO HIS FOLLOWERS, YOUR LEADERS ARE IN IRAN AND THEY ARE NOT IN JAIL, IN FACT THEY VERY OPENLY MAKE INTERVIEWS WITH FOREIGN MEDIA FROM WITHIN IRAN, AND THEY ALL HAVE THEIR OWN WEB SITES, WHY CAN’T THEY MOBILIZE THE 74 MILLION OF IRAN WHO WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT ARE GREEN!!! :-D

“Furthermore, precisely BECAUSE of “internet” images of those killed got distributed like wildfire. …The internet may have helped her become a symbol of the GM, but it also helped the regime by frightening the masses. So every mother or father would keep their children from going to the street.”

Ok for how long do you intend to create explanations out of thin air?
تا کی میخوای از چوب دلیل بتراشی ؟
So people in Iran were asleep and didn’t know that 10s of people were being killed routinely in Iran during 1978 and needed to see the bloody face of their children to be scared? The guy who saw the man next to him got his brain splattered on the wall as the G3 bullet hit his head, needed “internet” to be scared and stay off the streets?!?!?!

HUNGRY PEOPLE ARE NOT AFRAID OF DEATH! THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE! IT IS “EFFETE URBANITES” WHO SIT IN MOMMY AND DADDY’S THIRD OR FOURTH AUTO AND HONK THEIR HORNS IN PROTEST TO THE LACK OF FREEDOM FOR “MINI SKIRT” (AND LET’S BE HONEST THAT IS THE EXTENT OF YOUR OPPOSITION TO IRI) ARE THE ONES WHO WET THEIR PANTS WHEN THEY SEE A BLOODY FACE ON THE “INTERNET”!
HAVE A LOOK AT THAILAND AND HOW THEY RESISTED TANKS AND LEARN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EFFETE URBANITES IN “GREEN SHIRT” AND THE POVERTY STRIKEN MASSES IN “RED SHIRTS”! THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN “GREEN” AND “RED”!

“You’re justifying the killings because Shah did it too?! People had a revolution so that there would be no more Evin prisons and no more killings.”

What is this NONSENSE that you are posting? You truly are in need of an anti-hallucinogenic medication because hallucinate and then attribute it to me!!!
When did I say killing of even 100 or 50 or EVEN A SINGLE SOUL is “justified”??
In fact crack down on you people was the biggest stupidity of the system! The answer to you people is not battons or bullets, but rather it is a good psychiatrist!!!

“Rallies were scattered through-out 1978. It wasn’t like they had rallies every day. Same with the GM.”

Again you are hallucinating! The action during 1978 was on a daily basis and it got intensified as each day passed despite the ever increasing pressure and brutal killings of people! In GM on the other hand we saw (those who live in the real world saw it) that demonstrations VERY QUICKLY DIED DOWN!

“So you’re saying Ahmadinejad is like Hitler and his bussed in Basijis are like Hitler’s youth! You said it, not me! I wouldn’t go that far though. ”

Ok, what am I supposed to tell you now?? THAT IS WHAT YOU UNDERSTOOD FROM WHAT I SAID?!?!?
As I said the answer to your problems is not talking to me, the answer to you lays in the psychiatric wing of a good university hospital.

I think you’re just picking fights! Arguing for argument’s sake and comparing apples with oranges. You can’t exactly compare Iran of 1978-1979 with Iran of 2009-2010. We were talking about the numbers of current government supporters vs. GM. Shah too had rallies where hundreds of thousands gathered to show their support for him. They were mainly staged much like the staged rallies of the IRI.

“Shahs government never gave any permission to the 1978 rallies, DID THAT STOP THEM???”

Yes he called rallies of his opposition “illegal” as the IRI is doing now. The difference between then and now is that back then people wanted regime change, a full-on revolution. But they have now learned a lesson and know better to not want a full-on revolution, but rather reform. They’ve learned to not have blind faith in what the future brings as they did in 1979. In 1979 all factions, be it the nationalists or the communists rallied behind the Ayatollah. They regretted it in no time! The GM started with a simple “Where’s My Vote?” slogan (change without overthrow) and only after the oppression advanced in more extreme slogans. To this day, as far as I know Mousavi and Karoubi and Khatami haven’t called for an overthrow, but rather reform.

Moreover the Shah kept paying people on his government’s payroll even when they were on strikes. So for example when workers of National Radio and TV went on a strike for months, they continued getting paid. IRI learned from this lesson. They do as much smell opposition sympathy they do an inhouse cleaning, cut off pay and even go as far as making a person’s retirement money vanish. They even require government employees to attend rallies or else threaten pay cuts. Strikes are out of the question because people can’t afford to get food and they are too desparate.

“1978 rallies’ leader -quite contrary to Mousavi and Karoubi who live in Iran and are not in jail- was not even in Iran and there was no “internet” to convey his messages to Iran. DID THAT STOP THE RALLIES?”

They are not jailed in Evin, but jailed in their homes and in the country. As they kept Khatami from leaving the country for Japan. Their offices are closed, most the consultants are in prison and they are on constant watch.

Furthermore, precisely BECAUSE of “internet” images of those killed got distributed like wildfire. So every mother who has a son or a daughter got to see image of Nedda Agha Soltan as blood ran down her face. The internet may have helped her become a symbol of the GM, but it also helped the regime by frightening the masses. So every mother or father would keep their children from going to the street. In 1979, such images didn’t exist. Images of Basijis beating young and old, images of security trucks running over people, images of moral police hitting girls in the face with baton did not exist.

“All in all, the totality of the number of the killed in the last one year -including the victims of Kahrizak and the executions- amount to 100. Shah on 17th of Shahrivar ALONE killed ~100! On a daily basis he was killing the demonstrators, DID THAT STOP THE RALLIES?”

You’re justifying the killings because Shah did it too?! People had a revolution so that there would be no more Evin prisons and no more killings. What was the point of having an Islamic Revolution if they continue with the Shah’s tactics or worse than Shah’s tactics? Rallies were scattered through-out 1978. It wasn’t like they had rallies every day. Same with the GM.

“By the way, Adolf Hitler, rose to power with popular support (and there was no fraud in his election!). Nevertheless when he came to power he cracked down on the opposition, killing them en masse! Abd far from being disapproved his popularity even rose more!!!
NOT BEING DEMOCRATIC DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU DON’T HAVE THE POPULAR SUPPORT!!!”

So you’re saying Ahmadinejad is like Hitler and his bussed in Basijis are like Hitler’s youth! You said it, not me! I wouldn’t go that far though.

=================

“if there is going to be any social change and progress, it has to be under the leadership of the middle-class, and that will never happen for as long as the Iranian middle-class is living in a dream world, where it can gain popularity in Iran by colluding with Israelies or by shouting anti-populist and pro-American slogans on the streets of Tehran!”

No one is colluding with anyone and no one is saying any pro-American slogans. It just happens that enemy of your enemy is perceived to be your friend! For 30 years they have shouted “Death to America” and “Death to Israel” and it has come to the point that any criticism of the government will automatically make you pro-Israeli pro-American. It’s NOT about Israel and it’s not about America. It’s all about Iran and what’s right for Iran. If anything Ahmadinejad and his followers are making the life of Mussad and CIA much easier by always providing them with content to use against Iran. For as long as the Western media can use the type of rhetoric Ahmadinejad feeds them against Iran as a means to dehumanize Iran and Iranians nothing good will happen. And in regards to the middle-class… what middle-class?! Iranians are now either poor or super rich. The middle-class is non-existant. Perhaps you too should get it out of your head that all supporters of GM are middle-class northern Tehranis. Northern Tehranis are too much of a sissy to take up to the streets, they have too much to lose. The GM is is also made up of poor people in the urban areas. Like it or not.

All that said, I say this for probably the fifth time here, if I am wrong and you are right — which may very well be the case — you need not worry. A popular regime/government will finds its way out of any situation and will stand tall to serve the interest of its people.

By the way, if I keep talking to you guys, it is not because I have any doubts about Ahmadinejad’s popularity (I am not talking about his future popularity, I am talking about his CURRENT popularity).
If I keep talking to you and people with the same mentality as you, it is because if there is going to be any change in the situation of Iran for the better, if there is going to be any social change and progress, it has to be under the leadership of the middle-class, and that will never happen for as long as the Iranian middle-class is living in a dream world, where it can gain popularity in Iran by colluding with Israelies or by shouting anti-populist and pro-American slogans on the streets of Tehran!

Ahhhh…..here we go again!

“And again, I stand by my point that the numbers game can only be played if the GM is given permission to rally. Only then can you compare the numbers. You saw millions on Khordad 25, you will tenfolds if a permission is granted. If you don’t think that’s the case, again, need not worry… Live on my friends!”

Shahs government never gave any permission to the 1978 rallies, DID THAT STOP THEM???
1978 rallies’ leader -quite contrary to Mousavi and Karoubi who live in Iran and are not in jail- was not even in Iran and there was no “internet” to convey his messages to Iran. DID THAT STOP THE RALLIES?
All in all, the totality of the number of the killed in the last one year -including the victims of Kahrizak and the executions- amount to 100. Shah on 17th of Shahrivar ALONE killed ~100! On a daily basis he was killing the demonstrators, DID THAT STOP THE RALLIES?
By the way, Adolf Hitler, rose to power with popular support (and there was no fraud in his election!). Nevertheless when he came to power he cracked down on the opposition, killing them en masse! Abd far from being disapproved his popularity even rose more!!!
NOT BEING DEMOCRATIC DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU DON’T HAVE THE POPULAR SUPPORT!!!

Are you guys even reading my posts?! I said if I am wrong and you are right, which could be a possibility, that’s great. I would welcome it. If majority of Iranians are happy with their system and love living in Iran who are we to judge anything? And I don’t see the point of you spending countless hours sweating over dispelling any “green propoganda.” The fact that a year has passed and you and pro-government news organizations and Iran’s national TV along with Press TV are still dedicating countless hours on how “sedition” has been defeated tells a different story. The fact that they are still threatened by anything from women’s hair to unmade films to politically active students and dedicated journalists tells a different story. The fact that they are outlawing political parties, blocking books by founders of the revolution at the book fair, not tolerating voices of even Khomeini’s family, of even a former Kayhan writer tells a different story. Considering all that, COMMON SENSE tells me that this government does not feel legit or confident. COMMON SENSE makes me question their scenarios. COMMON SENSE tells me that no government has ever been able to rule with fear forever. Just as political prisoners didn’t keep the Shah’s regime from falling, they won’t keep the IRI from collapsing. But if things are as you say, we need to worry about any of that.

And again, I stand by my point that the numbers game can only be played if the GM is given permission to rally. Only then can you compare the numbers. You saw millions on Khordad 25, you will tenfolds if a permission is granted. If you don’t think that’s the case, again, need not worry… Live on my friends!