The U.S. Congress, in its infinite wisdom, passed a new piece of legislation authorizing the President to impose so-called “secondary” sanctions against third-country entities doing various sorts of business in the Islamic Republic. Since 1996, American law has authorized the imposition of secondary sanctions against non-U.S. companies investing in the development of Iran’s hydrocarbon resources or in pipeline projects to export those resources. (No U.S. administration has ever imposed such sanctions, but that is another story.) In the new bill, Congress has, among other things, expanded the range of business activities by third-country entities that are potentially “sanctionable” by the United States; the new categories include selling refined petroleum products (e.g., gasoline) to Iran and helping Iran develop its own capacity to produce refined petroleum products.
Earlier this week, The Washington Post published an excellent story explaining the futility of gasoline sanctions against Iran, which can be read here.
–Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett
Iranian@Iran:
نه بگو پس باهام کار دارن. چرا شخصی می کنید قضیه رو؟ آدم خوبیه چیه مگه خواستگاریه؟ من می گم کسی نمی تونه بهش بگه اشتباه کردی، فلان حرفت غلط بود، این کارت درست نیست یا اصلا زیادی دیدیمت تو قدرت بفرما خونت جا رو بده به یکی دیگه..بدون اینکه خاک هفت جدت به توبره کشیده بشه.
یکی از همکارانتون،آقای دانشجو که فعلامعلوم نیست دکترا از کدوم دانشگاه داره، گفته دقیقا کسی که به ولایت فقیه التزام عملی نداشته باشه چه سرنوشتی در انتظارشه. جدیدا هم شرایط پذیرش اعضای هیت علمی رو 6-7 ماهی طولش می دهند برای چک کردن کامل فی ما خالدون و تازه اول باید وزارت خانه تحت امر ایشون پیشنهاد کنه به دانشگاه که کی رو بگیرند(دکتر آب دو خیاری از دانشگاههای صدتا یه غاز هم که ماشاالله کم نیست.اصلا تقصیر ماست خودمون رو صاف کردیم درس بخونیم اینجوری). اگه نمی دونی یه پرس و جویی بفرما برای اطلاعاتت خوبه.
sarkar khanom Liz:
we are talking about Iran not the U.S. this is the only post I have merely talked about internal problems, that really exist and bothers Iranians, and I see how tolerant people like you are. in other posts, my criticisms were mostly directed at the west, greens,….If you can’t tolerate only these mild criticisms, that’s fine and at the same time regrettable. I resign and again get back fully to bash the west, israel, greens,….
PG,
تند نرو. به نظر من و بیشتر دوستان همکار رهبری آدم خیلی درستیه. اگر به ایران بیایی کسی کاری با شما نداره. موفق باشید
PG,
Instead of using foul language go and watch Kaveh Afrasiabi on Press TV. This is not the first time a pro-Iran Iranian (Mr. Mousavi in LA,…) has been arrested and abused by the US police. The US does not tolerate real dissent. Did you know that people can go to jail for 15 years for watching Almanar TV!
Iranian@Iran:
دوستانه بهت پیشنهاد می کنم به قضیه میمونی که داره رو خر سواری می خوره و همزمان می خواد ترت××× رو هم بده یکم بیشتر فکر کنی. دریایی از مفهوم توش خوابیده!
Iranian@Iran
برادر، ××× چه ربطی به شقیقه داره؟ اصلا فرید ذکریا(خ×) کیه که بخواهی به حرفش استناد
کنی(ایشون ایران تاحالا ایران بوده؟)؟ باور کن من اینجا بدون زره دارم وسط خیلی از سبزها، نیوکانها… شمشیر می زنم. دیگه کم مونده من رو از اینجا بیاندازن بیرون بیام ایران بجرم ضدیت با ولایت فقیه اعدام بشم! درضمن خامنه ای، ایران نیست
I think you know that you are caricaturing Iran. Even extremely biased establishment figures in the US such as Fareed Zakaria now admit that Ayatollah Khamenei is the most popular public figure in Iran. The people of Iran support his position and no one has said that he is a معصوم. I think that instead of unfairly attacking Iran you should spend more time defending it in the face of the neocon/green war coalition.
Iranian:
thank you, but please mention which claim of mine is not credible. I made a lot here. I wish they weren’t credible either, so that I won’t have needed to write here in a website owned by an ex-CIA employee.
for example, you want to say criticizing Mr.Khamenei is pretty normal in Iran now?! (is this the caricature you are referring to?) (جون من سربه سر می نذار، یعنی الان میشه حرف ساده ای مثل آقا فلان جا اشتباه کرد رو گفت؟ یعنی تو این چند ماه ایران اینقدر عوض شده؟ ظاهرا ما از هر جا میریم بهشت میشه! تازه دارم می فهمم مشکل کجاست!) it’s indeed very easy to check my friend. bring one example in newspapers or even in the comment sections of the famous news agencies inside the country that talked about for example this decision, or that decision of Mr.Khamenei was not right. Have you ever heard in IRIB to analysis for example what he has done 10 years ago? (btw, I have a lot to say about IRIB and the false perception among Iranian middle class about the norms it advertises). or what happened to Mr.Daneshgoo after such a scandal? (سر و مر و گنده داره می گرده تازه ملت را هم تهدید می کنه و باسوادترین جوانهای این مملکت رو فراری می ده)
you misunderstood me, I guess. I wholeheartedly believe in a Islamic Republic system (my Islam is the minimum one not the maximum one though) and in particular the ideals of 1979 revolution which has so far been mostly betrayed by the leaders. this is not a gesture to differentiate myself from the radical opponents. but I believe in an Islamic Republic that respects, at the minimum level at least, the liberty of individual. liberty in expressing himself/herself….
Look the fact is that intelligence agencies do use news agencies and journalists and publications for intelligence purposes. The Church Committee investigations in the 1970s concluded that hundreds of publishers, newspapers and even journalists were either owned outright by the CIA or operated by the CIA (Coogle “Operation Mockingbird.”) Demanding freedom of speech in Iran in order to have easy access for propaganda that is deliberately intended to undermine and topple a regime is ridiculous.
On the other hand, the knee-jerk reaction of censorship and restricting freedom of speech doesn’t work either in the long run, and ultimately backfires and causes the state to lose legitimacy in public perception. Anyway, nowdays with communications technology being what it is, it is not technically possible to censor everything.
So on one hand Iran can’t compete with the market dominance of the US in the speech/news/cultural output arena, and on the other hand it can’t stop the flow either. The solution is that Iran has to become a savvy participant in this game/battle. This applies to all developing nations. Iran has been doing this lately with its own version of CNN and such and is learning.
Many years ago the Developing Nations complained that they were the recieving end of massive information flows from the Developed Countries. They tried to set up NWICO. Read more about it at WIkipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Information_and_Communication_Order
Persian Gulf, I agree with Iranian@iran completely. Your claims about Iran are not credible.
pirouz_2:
I love this sentence of you: “The freedom of expression must be demanded as a very effective DEFENCE against that external threat and rather not considered as a weakness helping that threat”.
this is exactly the point. kooshy mentioned the usefulness of a propaganda for Iran, and at the same time complained about the magnitude of western propaganda and almost empty hand Iran has in that regard. so, why should IR play the same game as the west, to the point of disillusioning its own people, when the failure is guaranteed? I seriously believe the lack of freedom expression and free access to information is a very big factor for the deep sense of paranoia,at least in my generation, that we see among Iranians. and in that sense, I would certainly blame IR. and it seems there are people in IR, in all level, who will be seriously threatened by that freedom of expression. that’s the major reason they resist, and not because of the threat in the national security’s perspective.
@pak:
I know buddy! They did the same during the operation Ajax in 1953 too!! They pretended to support his majesty and being against that evil Mosaddegh! But that time fortunately “smart” people such as you and Shaban Jaafari didn’t get fooled and brought down that CIA agent called Mosaddegh and gave their total support to the Patriotic Shah!
:-D
In an article by Ataollah Mohajerani, it is argued that hawks such as John McCain intentionally show support for the Green Movement in order to discredit the movement. That way, naive people such as Pirouz_2, and to a greater extent the hardline regime itself, can condemn the opposition and crackdown on any dissent to remain in power; thus giving the US and Israel more justification to bomb us back to the medieval ages.
I believe he is entirely correct.
Iranian@iran:
I just wish it was as I don’t mind declaring that I lived in that caricature for 25 years. it’s also making very sad to see Iranians like you dismissing the very painful facts of today’s Iran. A country that wastes its resources (both in terms of human resources and the natural ones) by the shortsightedness and stupidity of most of its leaders above all your Maghame Ozmaye Velayat (تکبیر!).
Pak,
Helen Thomas did not “openly advocate” the relocation of Israeli Jews to Germany and Poland. She was engaging in some sardonic humour. Thoms sought justice for the Palestinians but was very much accepting of Israel within its pre-1967 borders.
Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, said June 29th that Russia, France and the US want to resume negotations with Iran regarding the nuclear programme, and they are asking for Iran to cease enrichment of U to 20%. I think Iran should view this opening favorably.
Persian Gulf:
I do agree with you that we can’t wait until the external threat removed to ask for improvement in the freedom of expression, in fact in “some” cases, external threat is used as an excuse to suppress independent opposition which itself is anti-imperialist!
The freedom of expression must be demanded as a very effective DEFENCE against that external threat and rather not considered as a weakness helping that threat.
However that was not my point, my point was that in comparing the freedom of expression in Iran with that in the West, the undeniable existense of the external threat in our case and the fact that a large part of our opposition is in collusion with that external threat MUST be taken into account. And once those two factors are considered and once West’s own history (and indeed its current situation) in its attitude to a radical anti-system opposition are considered, the differences between the two systems start to pale.
I don’t agree with you; however, that in Pakistan there is more freedom of expression than there is in Iran. That in my opinion is FAR from the truth.
Also I don’t agree with you that Iran’s lower classes are less passionate about the politics than the middle class. I think you are confusing a passion against the regime with a passion for Politics. The participation in the elections from 1981 until 1997 was low, despite all the “propaganda” that you mention. Furthermore the very same lower classes voted for Khatami and the 6th Majles which were clearly not the favourite choice of the leader.
Anyway, it was really nice talking to you, and thank you for taking your time to answer to my long comments.
Persian Gulf
I think your discription of Iran is more like a caricature of the country.
priouz_2:
I really don’t want to be dragged into the idea of Iran vs west or any other country (Pakistan was an example to say the cons of this method). I can see how anti-west you have become; discrimination (hidden and otherwise) runs deep in the west, and I see it in the daily basis. it only grows as one lives here longer. but I can’t judge Iran based on how I, or other minorities, get discriminated over here. discrimination is a human nature and not particularly a western or eastern phenomena, though it might have been intensified in a capitalistic system. and I didn’t say the U.S is threaten like Iran. you got the point wrongly. what I said is, based on your logic only the U.S can develop the atmospheric of free speech because it’s less threaten comparatively. btw, Japan is under the threat of nuclear attack (just as an example, i don’t want to be dragged into this comparison again).
I think you see Iran too much based on election numbers. I am coming from the lower income class of the society (or at least in an environment that the neighborhood was like that), and I interact now with middle class and even upper class. the passion of lower income class, as you said, for politics is wrong to say the least (I should tell you that I am not illiterate about sociology. I have read more about sociology than politics). and, I grow up in that environment. there are other reasons for high turn out. basically there is no other thing to do at the time of election and you are overwhelmed by the state propaganda to vote. you feel like you are totally stupid (or rigorously infidel) not to vote! your analysis of only cultural problem of the middle class with the system is also half wrong. I assume you have too many negative experiences from the Shah’s era. things are interconnected. it’s not that easy to exclude political grievances and instead relate the dissatisfaction only to cultural one, no matter how right the definition might be. I don’t really care about how oppressive Shah’s regime was. I am asking for some basic norms for freedom of expression at time that I am alive (I can’t wait till all the big powers are gone, as kooshy might like, as myself and the generations after me will definitely be gone based on the current trend). my generation doesn’t have any background about the Shah’s era. so continuously referring to that time and trying to vindicate IR is not an acceptable arguments.
there is a well known concept as self-sensor in Iranian system (when it’s all too clear what are gonna be the repercussions of your words, why not cut it deliberately?). I assure you that I would be hanged in Iran (or killed in an accident or other arbitrary means of suppression) if I say what I just said in this website (and I am a seyed, you know!). your example of Zibakalam (I have seen the footage that you are talking about), Kawakebian (who lost two of his brothers in the war and so his allegiance is unquestionable)… is misleading. these are by no means real opposition. they have to show their blood contains 100% IR first before they get the chance to say something on the TV (go and see their debate. e.g Kawakebian with Shariatmadari). their allegiance to the supreme leader, Islam….must be first approved before being able to say anything. I assume you did not live in Iran for a while (or at least since Shah’s era) and just visited there as a tourist. that can be really misleading. there are serious red lines in Iran; criticizing the supreme leader, Islam and the ayyatollahs, IRIG’s involvement,….
in Pakistan, you are illegible to criticize anyone you like including the head of the state. you might not be that free to go against religion in some part, or take side with India…but different groups have their own media. it’s unimaginable for me to think of saying Khamanei did that stuff wrongly in Iran. again, I am not willing to get into this trap of comparison. it was an example of how miserable Iran’s case is (I regret to see that we have to compare ourself with Pakistan with all due respect for them). I also know that as the west’s experience shows, freedom of speech has grown up (or being coincident with) with capitalism. it seem, one without another ends up either a chaos (that we see in Pakistan) or a dictatorship.
anyway, let’s watch the soccer!
Persian Gulf:
I don’t know who has said that you were a regime apologist, but if I were you I wouldn’t give it even 2 seconds of thought that some one has said so. Who ever has said that you are a regime apologist is not even worth thinking about.
As I told you before I respect your passion for pursuing the “TRUTH” without being afraid where that truth leads you. However, this does not mean that I agree with some of your comments.
Now as to the answer to your post:
Allow me to make one thing clear first: I don’t approve IR’s internal reaction to the external threat. I don’t approve of the indiscriminate crackdown on the opposition EVEN IF some of them are in liasion with an external enemy. Just as I don’t approve of US system’s approach towards the radical opposition.
The main difference between you and I is NOT that I approve of IR’s crackdown. The main difference between us is that I see a very obvious parallel between the West’s approach to radical dissent and Iran’s. You on the other hand see a fundamental difference between the two. That is our main difference. I disapprove of both IR and the West equally, you on the other hand see the west as having a much more civilized system.
INDEED THAT IS WHY I KEEP GIVING EXAMPLES FROM THE WEST WHICH ARE PARALLEL TO WHAT IR DOES IN IRAN.
YOU SAID:”I think, your narrative of the west vs Iran is not right to start with. in particular your arguments about Iran being threatened continuously while the U.S is not. based on your logic, there wouldn’t be any possibility for virtually any country in the world to have an environment for its people to express themselves other than the U.S. because there is always going to be hostility from more powerful state one way or another.”
My friend, I am amazed that you can compare the security threat to the West (USA, Western Europe, Australia, Japan, Canada) with Iran!! WHO IS THREATENING USA WITH NUCLEAR ATTACK? WHO HAS BESIEGED USA, OR EUROPE OR JAPAN WITH THE WORLDS MOST POWERFUL MILITARY AND THREATENS THEM WITH A MILITARY ATTACK TO DO REGIME CHANGE ON A DAILY BASIS?!?!?
However, let me re-iterate once more that the fact that I say Iran is under a constant military threat is not to “approve” their reaction to this threat with respect to our opposition.
BUT IT IS AN EXTREMELY IMPORTANT POINT WHICH MUST BE CONSIDERED WHEN COMPARING THE SYSTEM IN THE WEST AND THE SYSTEM IN IRAN.
The West (be it USA, UK, or Japan or any other), with a threat FAR LESS GRAVE than the one which is threatening Iran would react FAR more powerfully and ruthlessly than Iran! Even as it is right now, with the West being the military dominant power, it can’t tolerate Al-Menar or any radical dissent (esp. towards its foreign policy in middle east) much less would it tolerate the radical dissent if there were a real military force threatening its security the way there is one threatening Iran.
YOU SAID: “let’s accept your arguments that the government and the president is not that serious in the west, e.g the U.S, and there are other factors involved. at least you can say this or condemn it. you can point out to those elements and raise your voice. or else, you want to say criticizing the gov. is not that important and instead a fantasy (something like dailyshow, I would say). ok, then let’s our people have this at least, if they are happy with. it would be even nicer for the IR to do that since doing so would distract the opponents from the real barriers. I see from what perspective you see the situation, but believe it or not IR does the opposite. It’s exploiting every single opportunity to crash any meaningful criticism.”
First of all I think that the crushing response of IR to any “meaningful criticism” is being HIGHLY exaggerated in the west. I am not saying that they are not oppressing “meaningful” criticism, they are! And they do it with any excuse that may come up and as harshly as they can. But NON-THE-LESS the magnitude of oppression is highly exaggerated in the west.
By the way, I have to repeat myself here, you think the west does not crush the “meaningful” opposition? If there is any difference in the response by the two systems to SOME OF the dissidents, it is because those dissidents in the West don’t pose any serious threat to the System, in Iran “potentially” they do.
And no I don’t think that giving them such a “superficial” freedom will make them happy. To begin with the amount of freedoms that they enjoy is not even COMPARABLE TO what they had some 16 years ago. But do you see them any happier? NO!
There is a significant tolerance for dissent in todays Iran, people such as Kawakebian, Zibakalam and EVEN Raisdana can come on the state TV and openly criticise things which are shown in the West as being taboo in Iran.
The reason that I mentioned Zibakalams siding with Reza Shah was just to show you the amount of tolerance towards the dissent in Iran. He OPENLY SIDED WITH HIM ON THE STATE TV. NOT ONLY THAT HE ALSO INDIRECTLY (BUT NON THE LESS OPENLY) QUESTIONED IRAN’S SOVEREIGNITY ON THE STATE TV AND OPENLY SIDED WITH USA!
The point here is not about siding with Reza Shah being a “criminal act”. ON THE CONTRARY the point here is that apparently siding with Reza Shah is NOT a criminal act in Iran!!
But do these make our people any happier? NO!
Let me tell you why I think it doesn’t:
There are two main priorities among the Iranians. The priority of the middle class and the priority of the lower income classes.
Quite contrary to what the middle calss itself thinks, its problem with IR is not political in nature. The middle class’ main problem with IR is “cultural”. For 30 years they have been “culturally oppressed” and have been forced to live their life according to the wishes of the religious fanatics.
If today you see some people from the middle class claim that Shah’s time was much better it is ONLY because their priorities are not about political freedom but rather CULTURAL. Hell at the time of Shah they would send you directly to jail for saying about Qajar dynasty what Zibakalm said about Reza shah!! The amount of political freedom is not even comparable today to the dictatorship of Shah. However, at the time of Shah the culture and life style of the middle class was dominant today it is NOT.
The main priority of the lower classes on the other hand is about “bread and butter”.
So it does not matter which class you belong to, giving such “superficial” freedoms which are void of any true “content” will not solve our people’s problem.
YOU SAID:”I understand your arguments about some of the oppositions being in the payroll of the west. that’s too obvious to see. but we are not like that. those who I know are not cooperating with the enemies, and the majority of the opposition inside the country is not in that category. that’s really cheap to label everybody this way. I ask for basic norm, regardless of what the s*** might happen here and there.”
I never said all opposition members are on the payroll. Some of them are truly honest and love their people. And furthermore IR uses those who are on the payroll as an excuse to prosecute some of the others who are independent too, I don’t deny that at all. But that doesn’t change the fact that a great many number of those “webloggers” are being financed by the uncle sam! And believe me if the west had been in a similar situation as Iran it’s reaction would have been even harsher.
YOU SAID:”frankly, a few years ago, I was thinking that the difference with the income in the west and Iran to be the main source of radicalism and too much involvement in daily politics. this is simply not true. the lower income class has a less passion for political involvement as opposed to the middle one. your arguments actually discredits this basic fact. there is a very big diversity of lifestyle in the U.S (or any other modern society) which I would say is almost absent in a country like Iran and with the emphasis that IR has in advocating a certain norm of living. that diversity channels out different segment of the society and removes the chance of a big radical movement.”
Actually I disagree with you completely on this matter: The lower income class is not any less pasionate about politics. Look at the participation in the elections, where else in the world do you see >85% participation? Does this look like our lower income class is not “passionate” about the politics?
By the way, it is a well observed phenomenon that with the increased number of middle class people, political pacification and apathy increases. And similarly as the number of middle class decreases, the social unrest and political radicalism increases. You can see this trend clearly in this history of the West in the late 19th and all over 20th century.
YOU SAID: “I have criticized Zibakalam for his deliberate talks about different issues and those who know me here saw that. however, if you read his writings, his is by no means somebody to take side with enemies of Iran as you said (he might be a bit paranoid). he questioned the rationale of a policy, in a far less degree of seriousness than what we see here in this website. it’s actually the absence of free access to information in Iran that gives opportunity to i*** like him. he loves Reza Shah. I didn’t know that is a crime! what is wrong with that? don’t you think, if it wasn’t for the discriminatory policies of RezaShah, for example in terms of language, you couldn’t have emphasized on Farsi as being a source of unification in Iran nowadays? he might have done many things wrong, but after all saved the country at the time of a total disintegration.”
I dont want to make this comment much longer than it has already become, so I will just tell you that I MYSELF witnessed his siding with USA/Israel.
Look in youtube for some of his debates on the IRIB and you will see, he denies the existence of any Iranian assets which has been frozen in the USA in 1979, and VERY CLEARLY questions Iran’s sovereignity by giving the US judiciary to make a judgment over a completely internal matter in Iran.
Also, as I said before, my argument was not about “criminalizing” the act of siding with Reza Shah. ON THE CONTRARY I WAS POINTING TO THE FACT THAT IT DOESN’T SEEM TO BE AS CRIMINAL AS MOST PEOPLE WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE IN THE WEST!!!
Three last points:
I never said anything about giving a “completely” free hand to ANYONE (much less to religious fundamentalists), what I said was about giving a “free hand” in freedom of expression! By the way, under the cover of “religious fundamentalism” people who are by no means fundamentalists have been deprived of their rights in USA.
Helen Thomas and what happened to her is known to people like you and I. Do an experiment tomorrow, when you go to your work, ask people and see howmany people have actually even heard of her “name” let alone knowing what has happened to her!!
By the way, who says that we don’t know about what is going on in Iran???
Lastly, could you please tell me based on what you say that the freedom of expression in Iran is worse than in Pakistan?
kooshy:
let me assure that I don’t write in this place to please anybody. don’t have that kind of personality. I also don’t know what kind of tactic or game you are referring to. I saw something wrong in your words and mentioned that. sorry if it was painful for you. I write about what I think is right. I don’t see the direction in which Iran goes to be the right one or productive. my concern is not few pseudonyms’ complements/hatred rather the well being of my fellow countrymen and dear country.
نخواند بر ما کسی آفرین — چو ویران بود بوم ایران زمین
دریغ است ایران که ویران شود — کنام پلنگان و شیران شود
p.s, by here, I meant the city I live right now, and also the zone in which virtual community reaches! as I said before, some of my friends ,who know my pseudonym, check this website occasionally and can tell you if there is any false information I have put here! and don’t worry, I have a sea of disagreement with some of them.
Pak
“I also condemn the oppression of protesters in Canada, but I only have the capacity to worry about my own people. You seem to worry about everyone else but your own people. How philanthropic of you.”
Paneer-e-Pak-e-Aziz-e-Del
Remember that dairy brand in Iran, actually during the shah’s period some pepole in Iran believed Pak was an “Enduring American” brand from the Kraft Co.
But any how I love your line above, since this is a much welcomed and lovely agenda would you please also whisper your recomendation in Scott Lucas’s ears if he is around.
Cheers
Dear Persian Gulf,
I love how you dismiss my age but then proudly proclaim that you represent 70% of Iran’s population, i.e. young! I have no reason to believe otherwise, but I still will. You must be lying.
Dear Pirouz_2,
To begin with, why are the superficial differences “superficial”? Are murder, imprisonment and torture superficial? The fact that you need to “scratch the surface” to argue your point speaks for itself.
I will ignore this blooper of yours and debate your other points.
1) In your original posts (which I did actually read), you said that the per capita income of Iran is not comparable with the WEST, i.e. the West is far more prosperous than Iran, which naturally means that the majority of people are apolitical, because their political system is meeting their needs, unlike Iran. This is a good point. So is your point about the McCarthy era and the witch-hunts.
But do you not ask yourself why there is radical dissent in Iran? It is not something to brush aside as you have done. It is a very important matter. Furthermore, the regime is doing no good by radicalising the opposition even more. In fact, it will ultimately be its downfall, as history has proven, which will probably lead to a greater mess than exists now. I find your point funny, because you have done very well to identify the problem in Iran (the political system does not meet the needs of the people) and you have noted how this radicalises the opposition, but then you ignore the problem!
You keep on listing names that I should look up. I will give you a list of hundreds of Iranians you should look up if you wish.
2) The US is under a security threat. It may be partly because of its own actions, but it is definitely under a security threat.
There is not much point in debating the rest of your point, because you and I will never come to an agreement about the opposition in Iran. If you consider the opposition as a grass-roots movement (as you implicitly did earlier) then the rest of your point is invalid anyway.
It is interesting that you bring up the LA riots to defend your point. Firstly, I condemn any sort of oppression anywhere in the World. Secondly, the protests in Iran were mostly peaceful until they were brutally crushed. Thirdly, the LA riots were fully reported on (freedom of expression/information/speech/press etc). Fourthly, the LA riots were acknowledged by the government and the repercussions speak for themselves; there is a black president in the US. The civil rights movement in the US is actually a great example of a movement that has faced extreme oppression – oppression that still rears its head every now and again – but has ultimately achieved its goals. May be Iran should learn from the US. I also condemn the oppression of protesters in Canada, but I only have the capacity to worry about my own people. You seem to worry about everyone else but your own people. How philanthropic of you.
By the way, I said borderline ridiculous. Also, why are you so mad at these gasoline sanctions? I thought you wanted Iran to be self-sufficient!
pirouz_2:
I think, your narrative of the west vs Iran is not right to start with. in particular your arguments about Iran being threatened continuously while the U.S is not. based on your logic, there wouldn’t be any possibility for virtually any country in the world to have an environment for its people to express themselves other than the U.S. because there is always going to be hostility from more powerful state one way or another.
let’s accept your arguments that the government and the president is not that serious in the west, e.g the U.S, and there are other factors involved. at least you can say this or condemn it. you can point out to those elements and raise your voice. or else, you want to say criticizing the gov. is not that important and instead a fantasy (something like dailyshow, I would say). ok, then let’s our people have this at least, if they are happy with. it would be even nicer for the IR to do that since doing so would distract the opponents from the real barriers. I see from what perspective you see the situation, but believe it or not IR does the opposite. It’s exploiting every single opportunity to crash any meaningful criticism.
I understand your arguments about some of the oppositions being in the payroll of the west. that’s too obvious to see. but we are not like that. those who I know are not cooperating with the enemies, and the majority of the opposition inside the country is not in that category. that’s really cheap to label everybody this way. I ask for basic norm, regardless of what the s*** might happen here and there.
frankly, a few years ago, I was thinking that the difference with the income in the west and Iran to be the main source of radicalism and too much involvement in daily politics. this is simply not true. the lower income class has a less passion for political involvement as opposed to the middle one. your arguments actually discredits this basic fact. there is a very big diversity of lifestyle in the U.S (or any other modern society) which I would say is almost absent in a country like Iran and with the emphasis that IR has in advocating a certain norm of living. that diversity channels out different segment of the society and removes the chance of a big radical movement.
I have criticized Zibakalam for his deliberate talks about different issues and those who know me here saw that. however, if you read his writings, his is by no means somebody to take side with enemies of Iran as you said (he might be a bit paranoid). he questioned the rationale of a policy, in a far less degree of seriousness than what we see here in this website. it’s actually the absence of free access to information in Iran that gives opportunity to i*** like him. he loves Reza Shah. I didn’t know that is a crime! what is wrong with that? don’t you think, if it wasn’t for the discriminatory policies of RezaShah, for example in terms of language, you couldn’t have emphasized on Farsi as being a source of unification in Iran nowadays? he might have done many things wrong, but after all saved the country at the time of a total disintegration.
if allowing a religious fundamentalist to have a totally free hand to the point of what we saw for the near bombing of the Times Square, shouldn’t we think for a moment before wholeheartedly approving it. I, or you, could be the ones who were supposed be killed at that day and in that square.
much have been talked about Helen Thomas, I don’t approve the way they treated her. she merely expressed her ideas. but at least people were informed of what happened (same is true for Toronto’s event. I have seen the media covering it, and you know what is happening there), and we heard the whole story and can judge, as we see here from people like you, whether that was right or wrong. there was a freedom after speech at least! and yes, she just expressed her views. to me part of it was right, but part of it was racism, to be honest.
it is sad to say the freedom of expression in Iran is even worse than Pakistan (and they are just encountering an extremely powerful enemy on their neighborhood). I am actually less interested in comparing different countries, but when you turn to that method, there are always cases that can be controversial.
you can’t legitimize a guy called supreme leader, who has been on the position of absolute power by over 21 years by now, by simply stating Iran’s enemies are very opportunistic. he has recently been elevated to be compared with Imam Ali (by himself! and his stooges). and you know perfectly that Imam Ali has almost the same rank (some say even higher) as the prophet in Shitte.
Persian Gulf
“And why do you and people like you, think only you understand the world? Only people like you care about Iran and its interests…?”
PG – You are using the same debate tactic again, it wouldn’t work, if you care to continue, I never claimed that I understand the world, as mentioned on my last post, simply you asked my opinion and I replied with an answer that you despised, ok fine, I might be wrong but I am not willing to change my opinion just because you got disappointed with your vote for Ahmadinijad.
As for your generational issue, I don’t think you should be more privileged then any generation including mine, I actually think the last generation were real brave many sacrificed their lives to save Iran with war and revolution ( that I did not participate on either) regardless of what, their affiliations was.
I personally never thought you area a regime apologist (I saw no one else label you with that phrase). Consequentially I know now that you are disappointed and or confused, but just like here in US you will have a chance to vote in the next election and perhaps this time you care to vote for someone that you have studied better.
PG – For a while I have thought that you are playing a little clever game with everyone here, is really up to you if you care to stop this game and substantiate on your ideas.
cheers
kooshy:
great development. so, I (as the one who is labeled as the regime’s apologist here) am part of the western plot against IR, by your definition (when you label somebody like me with this method, it’s all to clear what would be case for the opponents). this is the same kind of paranoia that IR, as well as its staunched opponents, are engulfed in. the fact of the matter is, IR labels us of being naive, too western oriented,…. I have to remind you that my generation is composed of 70% of the whole population, well educated, informed internationally….and yet our share of power is almost nothing. except those young Basijies, like Bazrpash, that we know all about them, the rest are suspicious cases based on this mentality. it is unfortunate to say it will be a long way before you realize that there are basic norms that are in the category of common sense, and don’t necessarily come from west, east, ….or else, you realize it and just don’t want to mention that.
and why do you, and people like you, think only you understand the world? only people like you care about Iran and its interests…? look at the IR officials, over the past 3 decades, we have seen only few people on the scene, it’s as if there was a shortage of politicians in Iran.
@Pak:
By the way, the most ridiculous thing is to call ridiculous any argument whose substance is above your head.
Dear pak:
I don’t subject the two societies to different standards. It is just that I don’t just look at the superficial differences. I scratch the surface and try to see if there is any difference of substance between the two systems BENEATH THE SHALLOW SKIN.
I think you didn’t read what I wrote (several times) earlier so let me explain it again:
1) The per capita income in Iran and in USA are not comparable, the percapita income in USA is so high that it is very easy to keep the big majority of the people “apolitical” and pacified no matter what their government does. As a result, in the West the “radical” opposition to the state remains severely marginal. And in some cases where the governments go against the explicit will of the majority, the population forgets about it (unless it is constantly reminded of that unpopular decision by -for example- a steady flow of incoming body bags) in a relatively short period of time (say until the up coming election).
The situation is not the same in Iran. In our country last time I checked the per capita income was ~5000/year with a GINI index of 43. Which means that the big majority of the country is facing with very grave issues. This grave economic situation makes them very much prone to look for drastic (ie. radical) solutions.
As a result the “radical dissent” is much more common in our country than it is in USA.
Hence the “reaction” to radical dissent is also different. The main point that a lot of people disregard is that people like Finkelstein, Chomsky, Churchil, Naomi Klein are BY NO MEANS A THREAT TO THE SYSTEM. As a result it is really not all that hard to leave leftists alone to scream at the top of their lungs for as long as they can, the appeal to a very small part of society anyway!
If you go back in history when there was a danger from the left to the system, the reaction to the radical leftist dissent was MUCH HARSHER (eg. McCarthy era). People such as oppenheimmer were being sacked and their carriers were being ended. Authors and intellectuals such as Brecht, Miller, Charlie Chaplin were being prosecuted.
2) USA is not under a security threat. There is no superpower whose armed forces would besiege USA from Canada to Mexico. No country is threatening USA to overthrow it’s government via military means ON A DAILY BASIS! USA is not under sanctions for exercising its most basic rights as a sovreign nation.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: USA’s radical opposition is not in collusion with an enemy which has besieged their country from all sides. In other words, US opposition is not literally acting as a foreign agent.
IN IRAN THIS IS VERY MUCH THE CASE.
When a “radical dissident” is suspected of liasion with the “enemy”,in USA, all of a sudden the attitude change dramatically (google the names Sami Al-Arian and Debbi Almontaser).
By the way, I think it is you who applies double standards when comparing Iran with the West.
Just have a look at the number of people killed during the LA riots (>50) in a SINGLE WEEK and compare it to the events of the past WHOLE YEAR IN IRAN and the number of casualties there!
Why even in Toronto, in a single night over 500 people were arrested the big majority of which were not even rioters, they were demostrators, BY_STANDERS and EVEN REPORTERS. All detainees were kept in cages (LITTERALLY) in the open air under torrential rain, with no permission to go to any toilet (so they had do relieve themselves, in the cage) and very limitted amount of fluid to drink.
German secret service at the G20 summit (or maybe it was G8), TWO DAYS BEFORE THE EVENT, raided the houses of people who were known to have participated in the previous protests and arrested them.
These you consider as “democratic” countries which are unfortunately not “perfect”, but last years events in Iran are considered as brutal crackdown of a dictatorial government (which happens to have been ellected by a solid majority and tries to protect the election results)!
Dear Pirouz_2,
I am sorry for jumping into your argument, but I only do so because some of the things you say are borderline ridiculous. Why do you hold the West to such high standards, but then hold “principled” – i.e. lower – standards for your own country?
I do not need to Google Finkelstein (is Google not a Zionist propaganda tool anyway?); I am a big supporter of him and his views. It is clearly unjust that he along with Churchill (who I did Google) were denied certain academic privileges because of their work. But what are you trying to suggest? That this is comparable with imprisoning of thinkers in Iran? With threatening them and their families into silence, or forcing them into exile?
The Helen Thomas situation is similar. She openly advocated the removal of the Jewish people from Israel/Palestine; she was forced to resign. In Iran, journalists valiantly report on human rights abuses and corruption cases, or they offer their general opinions; they are imprisoned, threatened or forced into exile. On a comparable level, there is no similarity between the West and Iran. This tactic is merely a distraction tactic used by regime sympathisers when they have no real arguments.
Persian Golf
“here is the connection. I didn’t switch intentionally. I voted for someone and you want to silence me for all the s*** that the guy might do after.”…………… “it’s really disturbing to see you deflecting from the main issues. ………………….if you totally gave up the idea of getting back in Iran and prefer to stay in LA, that’ fine, but people like me want to get back there. I want to have freedom of expression at least. I didn’t talk about social freedom at all.”
PG – many thanks for your reply, and I do understand your passion and your disappointment with your vote. But I do take issue with your sentences above, I never did or ever will ask or try to silence you or anyone else here or anywhere, or I ever tried to deflect from the “main” issues. I only reflect my opinion since you had asked me, did you ever consider what the “main” issue is for you, might not be the “main” issue for me or someone else? Now that I explained/exposed your argument tactic doesn’t it sound that in reality, you are trying to silence me. This sounds like after all, you have learned a thing or two in the west with regards to the free speech rights; we have recently seen this similar tactic was used on Helen Thomas, they ask her opinion and once they get the answer it was used against her to silence her, and it worked, are you sure you are not part of the infamous Scott’s band that every once in awhile barges on this site to silence a few opinionated minds?
As for me, deciding what to do with my life here or there, my plan is to speak my mind where I am comfortable and is possible, and as long as is legal.
kooshy:
here is the connection. I didn’t switch intentionally. I voted for someone and you want to silence me for all the s*** that the guy might do after. democracy is not a one shot phenomenon, it has to be worked out continuously. I need freedom of expression to talk about the same officials’ actions that I had voted for. when I see Ahmadinajed’s, Khamenei’, Larijani’…actions wrong, I want to talk about it. weblogs get closed, this is really not tolerable. it’s really disturbing to see you deflecting from the main issues. I didn’t vote to see some thieves and charlatans in the position of power. Mr.Daneshgoo is just one example (I didn’t ask for him to have ph.d for that post, a master degree is fine to me. what I asked it when he claims he has the degree, it has to be right. and he shouldn’t cheat). guys like him are not illegible to be in those posts at the first place. if you totally gave up the idea of getting back in Iran and prefer to stay in LA, that’ fine, but people like me want to get back there. I want to have freedom of expression at least. I didn’t talk about social freedom at all.
I stand firmly on the ideals of the 1979 revolution: independence, freedom, Islamic republic, social justice….and I don’t think there was any ideal as the supreme leader in there as we see people are advocating in Iran nowadays. independence, however crucial it might be, was not supposed to sidestep all the other ideals and I am not also dismissing it. it seems to me that you are intentionally sticking to one point.
will write more, got to go now
priouz_2, for you too.
Dear Pak:
As usual you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Freedom of speech is not about “your” right to speak, it is about everyone’s right to express their thoughts. Otherwise anyone who agrees to certain principles in Iran is also free to speak out.
Look, this is a friendly advice to you, instead of just jumping into arguments, just READ AND LEARN. It is not good that a man of your age would know this little.
Google the names Norman Finklestein and Ward Churchil.
The regime, and many regime apologists, exhibit clear symptoms of the Napoleon complex. Yes, these sanctions are a disgrace and a lame attempt at masking threatening measures as a “peaceful” alternative. But, Iran is in no position to stand up to the US in such a brazen, senseless manner. And when Iran does stand up to the US in such a manner, its population is hit the hardest and must endure the hardship that the core of the regime deflects off itself. What kind of government does that?
Dear Persian Gulf,
It is up to you whether or not to believe me. But, next time try and avoid calling my ideas “false” and then running away like someone who actually has no counter-argument.
Anyway, you make some very interesting points on this page. I am truly fascinated in fact. What strikes me however is that you maintain a strong opposition to many of the principles of the regime, but you do not take that one step further and look at the situation from a macro point of view. That is, the regime is a dictatorship. That is, your opposition will go unheard, because Mr Khamenei is the Shah of Iran.
Dear Pirouz_2,
“1) The difference between Iran and the West is not really structural. You think you have freedom of expression here? I agree with you, “YOU” have that freedom! But “you” doesn’t mean “everyone”. Try to see it from a religious fundamentalists view point and then see how much freedom of expression “they” have. Freedom of expression is not about being able to criticize the “president” of US. Fact of the matter is that the president is not all that more powerful in USA than it is in Iran. And I am not talking about the laws and authorities on the paper, I am talking about the de facto power of the president. Fact of the matter is that the real power is in the hands of corporations in the West. The president is in reality nothing but a figure head.”
In other words: “Yes there is freedom of expression in the West. But if you work hard enough at convincing yourself otherwise, you will reach the conclusion that there is NO freedom of expression in the West!”
Umm, why should a religious fundamentalist have freedom of expression by the way? You are right when you say that the West is not perfect, but when comparing the West to Iran, which is the nature of such an argument, it is absolutely clear that Iran is in comparison a religious dictatorship with a stranglehold on the flow of information.
@Persian Gulf:
By the way, did you know that Senator Leibermann (I think it is he) is trying to introduce a bill to give the president the authority to Shut down the Internet all over USA if he/she sees it necessary in case of a threat to the “National Security”??
I think some 10’s of 1000’s of “rioters” attacking police stations with molotov cocktails and puting buses and trash bins into fire and destroying public property demanding the annulment of an election that they have lost (under strong suspicion of collusion with foreign powers) should qualify as a serious threat to the national security, don’t you agree??
@Persian Gulf:
Several things:
1) The difference between Iran and the West is not really structural. You think you have freedom of expression here? I agree with you, “YOU” have that freedom! But “you” doesn’t mean “everyone”. Try to see it from a religious fundamentalists view point and then see how much freedom of expression “they” have. Freedom of expression is not about being able to criticize the “president” of US. Fact of the matter is that the president is not all that more powerful in USA than it is in Iran. And I am not talking about the laws and authorities on the paper, I am talking about the de facto power of the president. Fact of the matter is that the real power is in the hands of corporations in the West. The president is in reality nothing but a figure head.
2) The main difference between the West and Iran is in the following:
a)In the West per capita income is some AT LEAST 8 times that of Iran. This is a very important point that most people disregard. In a country where per capita income is $35000-$45000 you can fairly easily keep the VAST MAJORITY OF THE people pacified and indifferent towards politics, no matter what the government does.
Look at what is happening in Canada over the G20 summit RIGHT NOW: over 500 people were arrested in a single night, a big part of which were not even protesters, they were just by-standers and QUITE A FEW OF THEM WERE ACTUALLY JOURNALISTS AND REPORTERS WHO WERE TRYING TO JUST TAKE PICTURES OF THE DEMONSTRATIONS!! The detainees were thrown in cages and were called by the police to be “rats in cages” under torrential rains in toronto. All of them were shivering in cold, soaked to their bones and kept with the charge of “breaching the peace”!
There is VIRTUALLY AN UNDECLARED martial law in effect in downtown Toronto AS WE SPEAK!
And these were not some 100,000 or 10,000 rioters who were attacking police headquarters with Molotov cocktails (demanding an election that they had lost by a clear margin), these were BY-STANDERS, JOURANLISTS AND DEMONSTRATORS (THE LAST GROUP WAS PROTESTING AGAINST G20 SUMMIT AND WAS NOT DEMANDING THE ANNULMENT OF THE ELECTION WHICH BROUGHT MR. HARPER INTO POWER).
Can you imagine what the situation would be if instead of a tiny fraction of society, some 33% of the society were to come out in protest, putting the police cars into fire? If the police is reacting so violently to such a small scale demonstration, what would be their reaction to some 10’s of 1000’s coming out for weeks and setting fire into trash bins, cars and buses? Especially if the protesters were being suspected of collusion with let’s say “Al-Qeda”?
b)The opposition in Iran is under serious suspicion of being in dirrect collusion with foreign states who try to overthrow the system in Iran. THAT YOU CANNOT SAY FOR THE OPPOSITION IN THE WEST. Especially considering the fact that Iran is under threat of military attack by the same forces who are in collusion with our opposition!
Let’s have some massive army surrounding USA from Mexico to Canada, and make threat to overthrow the US regime VIA MILITARY MEANS, and then have some opposition groups in collusion with that military force try to annul the elections in USA and then SEE HOW USA WILL REACT TO THEM!! Even as it is, when there is no military threat to USA, Al-Menar Sattelite TV station is banned in USA and just earlier this year a bill passed the congress which was banning all satellite TV stations which would be deemed as “Anti-American”! That you don’t see as an act against the freedom of expression, but the restrictions over criticizing Khamenei in Iran is a restriction on “freedom of speech”??
Don’t you know what happened just one month ago to Helen Thomas when she dared to “express her opinion” about the solution to the Israeli-Arab conflict??? Or criticizing Israel should be kept out of the boundaries of the “freedom of speech”??
You seem so upset about Mr. Danshjoo and what he has said regarding the professors required allegiance to Khamenei, don’t you know what happened to Mr. Finkelstein’s tenureship for his position on the Arab-Israeli conflict?!?!?!
And by the way, while this has happened to Finkelstein; a contemptible creature such as Zibakalam can easily come on TV and even in University and participate in open debates and side with Israel and US (and with Reza Shah)and as you can see still practice as a University professor in Iran!!
There are many other examples but I don’t want to give you a headache so these two should suffice for now.
Persian Gulf
“let’s accept your view. VOA, CNN,….might be b**s***, ok we accept that, but that doesn’t mean IRNA, Fars,…to be the same, as they are these days! what a weak argument you make here. I am not defending the situation here in the west (you might bring some cases of being suppressed for expressing their ideas), but it’s undeniable that I have a minimum freedom of expression.”
Persian Gulf – we were not discussing freedom of expression in Iran , you did not asked my opinion on that subject, why suddenly your are switching the discussion here, you asked me about propaganda, and why officials traveling so much to differ provinces, where was the question about freedom of expression, I said to Google and see if there are more negative propaganda made against Iran or from Iran directed at west, the story from Fars was a miss translation other then that the story matches the article written in FP and yes it was used as a propaganda since it was favorable to Iran nothing wrong with that and nobody made it up.
Earlier you wrote your reasons, for voting for Ahmadinijad , thanks I agree with some of your positions but these are not all the reason why, I support the Iran’s government,
I think to maintain the kind of democracy you wish for Iran, first and foremost Iran will need to maintain it’s hard earned expensive independence.
In past 30 years US and west have used every trick on the book to keep Iran off balance, destabilize, and insecure to prevent the country to be able to maintain a lasting independence, in my opinion if you really wish democracy for Iran then we all have to make sure we keep a unified will for independence.
James
“Why do you think Iran is unwise to stress the importance of achieving stability in Iraq?”
James I did not say that, Iran has and should to stabilize Iraq now that a majority Shieh government is in power
“I’m also curious what you think Iran should have done, during the Russian fight with Georgia, other than to express support for Georgia?”
I wrote in an earlier comment to PG that in my opinion Iran should and did nothing and let both sides (US/West vs. Russians) weaken each other’s positions and that’s what has happened.
kooshy:
you said “_About the propaganda , go to Google news and search for Iran’s news, see all the news, analysis, reports and articles, check to see how many is from Iran’s News agencies and how many are from the western news agencies, you should be surprised if 100 to 1 is supporting Iran’s position. ”
let’s accept your view. VOA, CNN,….might be b**s***, ok we accept that, but that doesn’t mean IRNA, Fars,…to be the same, as they are these days! what a weak argument you make here. I am not defending the situation here in the west (you might bring some cases of being suppressed for expressing their ideas), but it’s undeniable that I have a minimum freedom of expression. at least there is a website like theraceforiran! that people can say this stuff without being persecuted. do you think that I can publish what I said about Mr.Khamenei in Iran? (you can try some websites like alef, tabnak,…)I would be in prison,at least, for saying this stuff which are pretty normal criticism. Mr.Daneshgo, the minister of science, who is not clear whether he has a ph.d or not! (it’s a shame for Ahmadinejad to select him as the minister of science of a country like Iran with so many scientists) explicitly said there is no place in Iran for any prof. without wholeheartedly believing Mr.Khamenei. yes, I voted for Ahmadinejad, but didn’t vote for him to see this scandal (few months ago this guy made a scandal by duplicating another paper. I have checked the two papers myself. there were 98% identical, word by word). (دیگه عزیز هر چی ما هیچی نمی گیم شما دیگه شورشو در نیار خواهشن. ما رای دادیم بهش، نگفتیم که بیا ما رو…)
kooshy,
let me say something (I apologize for not being polite). the story of IR and the majority of the Iranian people, as a close friend of mine rightly says always, is exactly like the story of a donkey that gives ride to a monkey. every few minutes, the money goes back a bit and f***s the donkey. now, I should say this to IR, we accepted to be the donkey, but please go and find somebody else to f***. there are plenty of choices out there. you said the enemy has attacked us, we said, ok we fight. you said, we are unfairly under sanctions for our principles, we said, ok, that’s fine we resist….you said, you know the west attempted a velvet revolution, we, like a donkey, said ok, we accept that. but please don’t tell us lies, and hollow promises, all the time as we see in official websites and IRIB…and the story goes.
Persian Gulf,
Interesting comments. As I have mentioned before, Iran’s resources, both in energy and a talented population, ensure Iran’s continuing rise in power and influence. Iran should stress the importance of peace and stability in the Middle East, but in the context of achieving justice for the Palestinians. Most Americans will readily accept Iran in this posture.
Lysander,
As you will recall, the tension between the US and Russia arose largely because of Russian concerns re: possible Nato expansion (Ukraine and Georgia), and the idiotic American effort to build an ABM system in Eastern Europe. The armaments manufacturers and their stooges in the US Congress argued that the system was needed to protect against Iran (and North Korea!). Bob Gates remains gung-ho for squandering hundreds of billions of dollars on a useless ABM system.
kooshy:
thanks for the explanation. yes, I not only voted for Ahmadinejad, but also campaigned for him, and tried to reach out to my extended family to encourage them to vote for him (well, I couldn’t get the votes of two of my brothers though!). however, I don’t think voting for a candidate is a one time cheque. the election was for over a year ago. I keep the right for myself to raise my words whenever I think it is time to do so. I think, I said before why did I vote for him. but let’s make it clear:
1-first and for most, I have seen his foreign policies relatively successful. his handling of the nuclear file was satisfying for me. and we have seen some real progresses. it could have been the mistakes of Iran’s nemesis. either way, the outcome was the same.
2-an unfair campaign that the opposition ran against him. I have seen many lies that the followers of the oppositions were spreading, and I kind of distrusted them more than the Ahmadinejad.
3-his good performance in the debates compare to the other candidates. after all, it was a pragmatic move. it wasn’t the matter of real choice rather necessity.
4-the opposition’s lack of clear ideas of how to run the country. I didn’t see anything promising from their slogans. and their ridiculous criticism of the foreign policies.
5-a feeling that by maintaining the status quo, the west, the U.S in particular, is going to accept Iran especially if a firm word comes out of the country. the sentiments, before the election, had started to change toward Iran. Iran was seen as an emerging power that should be respected and taken serious.
6-last but probably not least; some of my friends say it was a class preference. I am actually not sure of this. may be, or may be not. except this election, I had always voted for the oppositing camp though.
you should know that Ahmadinjeda is not seen as of being in one of the two compelling camps (principelists/reformists). he was just seen as the man of the people. and I think, he, and his faction, should try to distance themselves from those groups if they really want to have the majority on their side (it’s a big mistake the conservatives think, because of reformists’ failure, they are now loved. that is simply not the case). the more he distances himself from Khamenei, the more popularity he would have (it is not because of my obsession with Mr.Khamenei).
kooshy,
Why do you think Iran is unwise to stress the importance of achieving stability in Iraq?
I’m also curious what you think Iran should have done, during the Russian fight with Georgia, other than to express support for Georgia?
Iranian@iran:
if you read my comment, I said, it’s somehow acceptable for the president of the country to do that. though, he does more than what is really needed. it could be also nice if they could change the method (the way they do is just waste of money. the money which is not for Mr.Khamanei…to buy followers (privileged followers). we all know who those guys attending such a speech are, and what kind of benefit do they get. please don’t try to mislead people here). I actually prefer they pay attention to the core of people’s needs rather than getting the gesture of being with the people (we are tired of being with the leaders! please do something instead of being with us!). what I also said was more about Mr.Khamenie, Mr.Larijani…(too many people to listen to in the IR, frankly speaking) especially bringing thousands of people (as they said) from Boshehr (which is roughly 1000 km away) to Tehran just to listen to his words (words that we all memorized by listening over and over again. I don’t think the prophet’s words could have been taken that serous, had he been alive to date). I also remember I had attended a gathering that Mr.Khamenei was giving speech in a city nearby my region at the time I was at high school. and, I don’t remember it was a matter of love for the people I was seeing there. it was a great day. school was closed and we had fun at that day!
again, attending those speeches given by the president is not necessarily about liking him, and I am sure you know this fact, unless you are seriously living in a different world. it could be just about fun. it’s a way of socializing when the city is closed after all. or handing letters for basic needs as Ahmadinejad invented. the basic needs that, even though necessary and their rights, should have been given to them already by other means.
PG
In my previous post where I wrote “Iran/Syria (we should support and be nice under the eye of the Eagle)” it should be corrected to Iraq/Syria(………….., sorry
“I have a question and would appreciate if people like piriouz_2 or kooshy… could answer me. what did Iran get from Georgian crisis? sounds like a total failure for Iran. I was following Iran’s response at the time and found it very confusing, without any bold action. probably it was too afraid of an attack at the time. I think MS.Hunter forgot to mention this as well, as she rightly mentioned about countries like Turkmenistan and also Iran’s sometimes unnecessary emphasis on stability in places like Iraq.”
Persian Gulf /Lysander
Regarding the Iran’s Policy toward Georgia I generally agree with Lysander the best Iran did was to do nothing and let both sides loose, look there are far more important strategic and geopolitical issues between Iran and Russia, then the nuclear issue or the S300, namely the Caspian and all neighboring countries of the old USSR.
Iran eventually is looking and needs to be, in a position for transfer of Iran’s and Caspian states energy from Central Asia to west via Turkey ( Turkey is the best economic two way partner) or Iran/Syria( we should support and be nice under the eye of the Eagle) or Armenia/Georgia/Black Sea(we should also support and be nice without waking up the Bear) or all three, Iran’s interest is not to antagonize any of this countries or the Russians since we know they can create problem in Caspian and the Caucuses. Iran should maintain support for the street like what we do with the Arab vs. the Americans, unfortunately as Walter Cronkite use to say that’s the way it is today, since this countries including the Arab countries population truly hates this powers (Russians in former USSR sates and the American/British/French in Arab countries) we should support the street population without provoking a fight with this larger powers until their hegemony on the region is balanced.
_About the issue of officials traveling and spending money for traveling to provinces, I personally don’t see much harm in that, a government that is under constant
Attacks internally and externally will need to communicate its policies to sure up support and unity, what else you suggest they should do, I have personally seen Ahmadinijad’s policy of traveling to different provinces was very much supported by folk’s that had no contact with the central government in 100 years.
_About the propaganda , go to Google news and search for Iran’s news, see all the news, analysis, reports and articles, check to see how many is from Iran’s News agencies and how many are from the western news agencies, you should be surprised if 100 to 1 is supporting Iran’s position.
I have read, you mentioned you have voted for Ahmadinijad in the last election, but you are not sure if you really like his Ideas or if you can support his positions, then why did you vote for him? You may want to clear your position so everyone will understand what to expect from your stands.
PG,
Large numbers of people participate in the presidents speeches in the provences because they like the guy.
Iranian@Iran / Eric
I think you are right; it seems this is another “lost in translation” case; and it seems that the translator mixed up the names when translating the Leverett’s article in FP that was cross referenced by Eric’s research article.
PG,
I’m not Kooshy or Pirouz, but…
I would say Iran benefited by having increases tension between Russia and the west…though that has since dissipated. The lasting benefit is that Georgia has moved out of the western orbit, at least to some degree, and now looks to improve its relations with Iran.
I’m not sure that there was any big opportunity that Iran missed. Staying neutral while offering Georgia some encouragement was the right thing to do.
But I’m also curious what the others have to say.
I have a question and would appreciate if people like piriouz_2 or kooshy… could answer me. what did Iran get from Georgian crisis? sounds like a total failure for Iran. I was following Iran’s response at the time and found it very confusing, without any bold action. probably it was too afraid of an attack at the time. I think MS.Hunter forgot to mention this as well, as she rightly mentioned about countries like Turkmenistan and also Iran’s sometimes unnecessary emphasis on stability in places like Iraq.
Rowan,
I think we share a fascination with the “planting” of stories as part of an effort to shape events in the Middle East. Regarding Georgia, it should be noted that Iran came strongly out in support of that country when it was engaged in the brief fight with Russia in 2008. Israel, of course, had been training Geogian troops and using a Georgian airfield for flying drones over Azerbaijan and Iran.
Dear Pak,
the answers for your questions are no. we, pirouz_2 and I, could not get the chance to get in touch. either Ben didn’t want to do the request for security reasons, or pirouz_2 was unwilling to contact me at later stage. either way, I admire his critical thinking and deep knowledge. this way is even better. getting too close is not that productive! this way, I can disagree with him easily whenever needed without little regards for being morally locked!; like what I do often with kooshy who is clearly a strategic thinker.
and, your age, either 22 or double than this, doesn’t upset me at all, rest assured. obviously there are many wiser people younger (and older) than me in Iran and in the world at large (دست بالای دست بسیار است). I am quite an average person, as I said before. you keep trying to pretend that you didn’t get the point. simply put, I don’t like to argue with somebody who is not brave, and honest, enough to mention the most basic reality that the nature gave him; age. anyway.
Fiorangela: Thanks for the link, and the thoughts.
I became interested in Iran, and came to learn about and love the people and culture, through friends in Virginia.
Last year, Dr. Shahnaz Ghassemi and Dr. Ruhi Ramazani and his wife, Dr. Nesta Ramazani, gave this radio interview. Dr. Ghassemi was in Iran at the time of the vote; Dr. Ramazani is the ‘dean’ of Middle Eastern studies at University of Virginia and was mentor to Dr. Trita Parsi. Mrs. Ramazani presents fascinating insights into the advanced state of womenhood in Iran.
Enjoy.
http www dot wvtf dot org/news_and_notes/audio/200907271747480.200907011613230.EEpersiapartone.mp
http://www.wvtf.org/news_and_notes/audio/200907271748490.200907011616260.EEPersiaparttwo.mp
Castellio, were I to “convert,” I would want to be an adherent of that system of faith and values that guides the lives of my friends, Dr. Ghassemi and Drs. Ramazani.
kooshy:
I want to talk about an internal issue that really bothers me here. although here is for foreign policies of Iran, we do talk about internal stuff as well. actually, I was looking at IRNA and saw a link like this as usual (http://www.irna.ir/View/FullStory/Photo/?NewsId=1197148). as you know, these things are pretty normal in Iran, normal to the point that nobody asks anymore about their ridiculousness (نمی دونم این هزاران نفر از مردم بوشهر کار و زندگی ندارند. تهران کجا بوشهر کجا). It’s understandable for the president of the country to go to different cities and give speeches for different groups of people, and our president indeed does that, albeit more than what is really needed. but I don’t understand the same thing from people like Khamenie, Hashemi…. and recently Ali Larijani has started his provincial trips (probably as an early presidential campaigning). I saw him going to Gilan, Markazi…and I don’t know what was he doing there. he is the representative of the people of Ghom and those other provinces have their own MP. and you know what these trips mean in terms of cost, security….Often the whole city and province gets closed. governmental workers and students are brought by bus from different cities (I have experienced that). and you know attending these gathering is not really a sign of happiness (or approval) with the system on the part of the people. it’s just fun and also interesting to go and see the officials. usually, there is nothing going on that area for long while, so it’s sort of change of the environment! frankly I think, this habit has to change in IR. we are tired of talk.
kooshy,
as for Eric’s article, I saw that too and didn’t believe it at all. as I said before, farsnews is full of lies. my green friends call it falsenews, and I have to admit that their definition, this time, is quite right. to me, it’s in the same category as Roozonline (paranoia), Peiknet (conspiracy theories), Balatarin (delusion)…. IRNA is almost the same unfortunately. I just believe their pics! (sometimes even pics are not real!) or often one should multiply their news by a negative! (and i am sure they see this website so, به در بزنیم شاید دیوار بشنو)
Kooshy
I saw that too. They seemed to have mixed up the names of two different articles.
It’s true one sees a lot of Israel-inspired disinfo turning up in ostensibly unrelated places because the Israelis planted it there. The London Sunday Times comes to mind. Once it has appeared there, sourced to anonymous ‘mid-east experts’, the Israeli press re-imports it, pretending it wasn’t planted in the first place. It’s a clever tactic.
Very often the purpose of such disinfo is to sow doubt and confusion among those whom Israel regards as its enemies. For istance, over the years there have been dozens of stories claiming that Assad fils is negotiating secretly with the west. Recently, a story appeared claiming that Israel was staging bombers through an airfield in northern Saudi Arabia called Tabuk. This story supposedly came from the Fars News Agency, but there is nothing of the sort on their english-language site this month at all. I first saw the story on Arutz Sheva/Israel National News, but it is now featured in Haaretz and even on MSNBC.
But the stories about Israeli planes in Azerbaijan don’t have quite the same obvious disinfo ring about them. The detail that Turkey was duped into allowing transit of these planes to Georgia doesn’t sound like the sort of thing Israelis would make up. There are also rather vague reports of troop concentrations. I very much hope someone somewhere can give a serious assessment of what if anything Israel (and the US) are up to in Azerbaijan.
Kooshy,
I have no idea what article they are referring to. Unless my memory is fading very badly, I don’t recall every writing such an article. Since it’s nevertheless being attributed to me, I hope it was very well written.
No, Castellio, I have not become a Muslim. My parents were immigrants from Italy; I come from an Italian Catholic background. Italian Catholicism is different from Roman Catholic in that Italian women (especially) may be very pious in their practices but they pay little attention to the clergy and their dictates!
Fiorangela, do I remember correctly that you have become a Muslim? May I ask what religion, if any, you were previously?
I have good news for you. Richard Holbrooke, from Israel Lobby, may be on his way out:
{According to a report today in the Los Angeles Times, US Special Envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke may be on the way out in the wake of this week’s ouster of Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the former commander of the Afghan War.}
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/06/25/reports-richard-holbrooke-may-be-on-the-way-out/
OBAMA, sooner than later, must kick Dennis Ross out of his position as an “advisor’ on Iran policy and should bring someone who is committed to serve the interest of the United States NOT Israel. Has Obama been satisfied with so many concessions he has given to Russians or Chinese to keep them on board to vole according to the interest of Israel? Does Obama realize this is against the interest of the United States.?
Is Obama aware that Ross’s policy is leading the US into another war? Does he think another war will serve the interest of the United States with so high rate of unemployment? On the other hand, Russia and China are building their economy to compete against US.
Anyone with shallow knowledge of the region says NO. Please wake up before is too late.
Iran and the United States are natural allies contrary to US and Israel, since Israel is using the United States to establish its own empire from Mauritania to Afghanistan according to ODED YINON STRATEGY.
Israel is not an ally, rather a burden, according to MOSSAD AGENT.
Eric – you wrote this in a comment to Helena Cobban’s decimation of a ‘bomb Iran’ op ed by one Kuperman:
“As perhaps all of us do to some extent — but which Dr. Kuperman does to an almost amusing fault — he starts from his conclusions and works backward to find supporting arguments, brushing aside troublesome counter-arguments along the way like so much dandruff off his shoulder.”
You might be interested in this description of an unique form of argument: <a href = "http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-shasha/what-is-pilpul-and-why-on_b_507522.html" What Is Pilpul and Why Should I Care?
DWZ …… Thanks
My blog has been hacked just now. I don’t when I will be able to post next time.
Eric
There is a report in Fars News Agency today, about an article regarding US-Iran relations written by you and published in NYT, if this is correct, I couldn’t find it on the net, can you please post a link to this article. Here is the link to the Fars News report about this article that presumably was printed in NYT, Fars report is in Persian, Thanks
http://www.farsnews.net/newstext.php?nn=8904030478
Fioangela,
Philip Gordon, in his arrogant comments about Turkey (in link you provided), claims “Americans” do not understand Turkey’s vote against sanctions. Many American did understand Turkey’s vote, and thought the US was once again acting stupidly. But this point of view gets no coverage on network TV news, etc.
Rowan,
While I think it is unlikely Israel is about to launch an insane attack on Iran, there seems little reason to believe Israel would do so without first covering its flank by taking on Hezbollah again. Since Hezbollah will not strike first, Israel would need a pretext.
A US trade mission has just visited Syria. It would find itself with much success, were it not for the foolish effort to attempt to “wean” Syria away from Iran as part of the deal. Some stupid Republicans in the Senate have been trying to interfere, to prevent normal relations between the US and Syria – - unless a large “benefit” is conferred on Israel. I put “benefit” in inverted commas because I think it is to Israel’s benefit that Hezbollah is sufficiently strong to deter another Israeli smashing of Lebanon.
Rehmat:
Yes, you are right. btw, thank you for your good work. I often give the link of your articles when I am writing at Persian weblogs. Your work is very good and very useful.
Keep the good Work. Thank you.
Cyrus – Yes, Islamic Republic do import 30% of refined gasoline for its domestic needs.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=117476§ionid=351020103
DWZ….. Yes, DEBKA is an Israeli Hasbara (propaganda) tool – but then there hundreds of them – CNN, BBC, FoxNews, The National Post, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, Time magazine, Newsweek, Daniel Pipes, David Miliband and our Canadian prime minister Stephen Harper – are all listed on Israel Hasbara Committee.
On Azerbaijan – Ilham Aliyev has question for Obama: “Why I am not paid as much as you pay Israel?”
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/from-washington-to-baku-with-love/
DEBKA IS A PROPAGANDA TOOL OF MOSSAD.
MOSSAD WAS DEFEAD BY HEZBULLAH WHO NEVER RECEIVED ANY ADVANCED MILITARY EQUIPMENT OR BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO SPEND ON HER ECONOMY.
ISRAEL IS A LIABILITY AND ACCORDING TO MANY MOSSAD AGENTS HAS BECOME A BURDEN.
AZABAIJAN KNOWS THAT IF ITS FOOLISH PRESIDENT, A ZIONIST STOOGE, ALLOWS ISRAEL TO TAKE SUCH A ACTION, AJABAIJAN WILL BE LEVELED TO THE GROUND.
I’m just curious, not being an economist: Is it true that IRan has an undercapacity in refining gasoline, or is it more a case of over-consumption since gasoline is cheaper than water in Iran? What is Iran’s per-capita gasoline refining capacity, and how does that compare to other countries? I read somewhere that it has one of the worlds largets consumption per capita of gasoline, largely explained by smuggling to neighboring countries.
Sorry — the link I meant to include was this one:
http://www.debka.com/article/8868/
Here’s a previous report of the Azerbaijani activity, almost the same as Gulf Daily News’s one. The timing of this coincides nicely with CENTCOM’s leaderless condition, as I pointed out a couple of days ago. If Israel intends to precipitate a war in the near east, they must feel that they should do it right away. Their grip on the US popular mood is slipping fast. The way I see it, Israel will probably attack Iran, Syria and Lebanon simultaneously. All the NATO allies, including Turkey, will endeavour to remain uninvolved, but Iran can be expected to retaliate against any sources of attacks. The US might announce that any retaliation against a NATO ally will invite the US use of nuclear weapons.
US is pressuring Turkey: You are not behaving properly; move away from Iran or the West will move away from you. http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/10434
There have been an awful lot of stories appearing in the Gulf presss over the last few days (admittedly mostly referencing one another) to the effect that Israel is massing planes in Azerbaijan for an airstrike on Iran. Some of the stories also implicate Georgia. Here is an example from today:
http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=281041
No one wants Iron cage,
The foolish US foreign policy pursued in the Middle East is due primarily to the Israel lobby, and secondarily to the armaments manufacturers, their lawyers and lobbyists, paid politicians, paid generals and admirals, and stooges placed in think tanks and in mainstream new media.
One reason the situation persists is simply that the American public is too lazy, and stupid quite frankly, to bother to ascertain the truth. Grossly ignorant, they are easily frightened by spurious claims of warmongers (and “protectors” of Israel), that “enemies” are out there, wanting to take away their “freedom”.
Iran serves a most useful role, for those who dupe the American public into supporting insane levels of “defence” spending. “Valient” Israel serves a similar purpose, having been sold to the grossly ignorant US public as a fellow “democracy” and “ally” whose “freedome” is under the same threat as their own selves.
All in all, it is one of the greates confidence tricks or scams in the history of the US. And hundreds of stooge politicians in the US Congress (and elsewhere) make it all possible.
Rehmat,
I obviously agree with Beeman that the Obama administration’s fantasies of regime change due to sanctions, are just delusions.
Regarding the collapse of the Soviet Union, it should be noted that the lunatic squandering of vital investment capital on armaments and support for “revolutionary” movements around the globe, was not forced on the USSR, just because the US was so stupid as to squander such gigantic sums on unnecessary weapons.
Similarly, today there is no need whatever for a colossal US Navy, with more than 70 nuclear submarines (with more to come, at $10 billion or more apiece!). But the armaments manufacturers, their prostitute generals and admirals etc., the stooge politicians, and the complicit mainstream news media, keep the insane levels of spending where they are.
“AIPAC continue to strike fear into Washington’s hearts, Congress will continue to dance to its tune. But when the new generation comes to man key positions, the support for Israel will erode, American politicians would stop crawling on their bellies and the US administration will gradually change its relations us (the begining of regime change in the Zionist entity)”. Uri Avnery.
Professor William O. Beeman (University of Minnesota) in his recent article has called Obama administration’s ‘regime change’ in Tehran “a fantasy”…..
“Inflicting economic pain is not only ineffective, it is counter-productive. We may have brought the Soviet Union down by creating an arms race that they couldn’t sustain, but nothing we have or could do to Iran is going to cripple the country to the point of collapse, and it is laughable to think that that could happen. The Iranian people are inconvenienced by these low-level unilateral economic sanctions, such as those pushed through the United Nations Security Council on June 9, 2010, and the U.S. Treasury on June 16. They thus are embittered about the United States, but nothing more. It most decidedly does not make U.S. overtures to them to overthrow their own government more probable”.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/06/26/washingtons-regime-change-for-israel/
paul well said.
American people can’t sit idle and let these war criminals commit so many crimes and then claim ‘we can’t do much’. BS. This is your excuse to DO NOTHING. You have become selfish and ignorant and you think you can get away with murder. The future shows that if you don’t rise NOW, you will suffer later because world population is fed up and can’t take your cooperation with war criminals and zionist Lobby any longer.
You must go out and bring these stooges down. No one can live under the current system which is nothing but an IRON CAGE. You must destroy the IRON CAGE and those who created it and support it. No one can survive without TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF IRON CAGE known as ‘world order’.
There are things that we’ve gotten used to over time, ideas that ought to provoke a sense of outrage in a decent human being, but which have become foundational principles for the Nightmare Kingdom we so proudly call “civilization”. Take “national interests”. Nearly everyone – in the political/media establishment – takes it for granted that the primary or sole concern of foreign policy is advancing America’s “national interests”. But what meaning does that phrase, “national interests” even have? A council of the wisest and most disinterested people would have a difficult time defining “national interests” in any expansive sense, beyond such obvious basics as security against military invasion; yet – not surprisingly, in the end – since the phrase in fact gets defined opportunistically according to the interests of powerful elites, which are invariably TRANSNATIONAL, such as the global energy industry, and related sectors such as the global financial industry and the military-industrial complex, a phrase that is inherently so vague as to be useless becomes quite easily understood. Where American Power, as linked to the sway of transnational financial/resource interests, is in any way challenged, there American “national interests” are at stake.
In other words, America is the Strong Arm of transnational financial/power elites.
In that context, it makes perfect sense that Congress should unanimously decree that the crime against humanity of COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT should be unleashed on the people of Iran, with great solemnity, with all the dignity befitting the rage of an offended Empire. That Great and August Council need not concern itself with niggling details about the validity and significance of any dubious allegations against Iran. That would be akin to judging a tank by its coating of camouflage. The only thing that matters is that the tank is headed in a certain direction and one had best get out of the way, or submit — or pray for a quick end to one’s sufferings, if one chooses to stand one’s ground against a tank (pulling a Rachel Corrie).
Critics of the sanctions are completely missing the point. The sanctions ‘work’ by heightening confrontation with Iran. They don’t need to do anything else. What they also do – interpreted more deeply – is underline the impunity of the Globe’s ruling powers. By ‘crucifying’ Iran, based on BLATANTLY false, distorted and wildly exaggerated claims, these powers are effectively asserting that they do not need a reason for anything that they do, that their will is reason enough.
Iran (by no means a model of good government, but that’s mostly irrelevant in this context) seems determined to stand its ground. For it to have any chance of making that work, it has to do a much better job of articulating the idea that its struggle to survive the Hegemon’s crushing attack is also a wider global struggle against the idea that only certain transnational ‘elites’ and a certain Hegemon may determine the course of human evolution from now on.
I wish somebody close to Obama could poke him on the game that Russians are playing against not only Iran but also against broader US interests in the region.
Dan Cooper …… My association with Gilad Atzmon goes way back at peacepalestine, a blog by an Italian Jew lady, Mary Rizzo.
In one of his interviews – Gilad Atzmon had said:
“I don’t write about politics. I write about ethics. I write about identity. I write a lot about the Jewish Question – because I was born in the Jew-land, and my whole process in maturing into an adult was involved in the realization that my people are living on stolen land.”
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/gilad-atzmon-proud-to-be-a-self-hating-jew/
.
Six Jewish Companies Own 96% of the World’s Media.
The power of lies, deceptions and disinformation as Americans pay the price of collective stupidity.
“You know very well, and the stupid Americans know equally well, that we control their government, irrespective of who sits in the White House.
You see, I know it and you know it that no American president can be in a position to challenge us even if we do the unthinkable.
What can they (Americans) do to us?
We control congress,
we control the media,
we control show biz,
we control everything in America.
In America you can criticize God, but you can’t criticize Israel…” Israeli spokeswoman, Tzipora Menache
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/six-jewish-companies-own-96-of-the-worlds-media/
Interesting interview:
Hart of the Matter : by Alan Hart
http://www.alanhart.net/hart-of-the-matter-1-alan-hart-introduction/
Nasser,
You put the matter correctly in a few words. Wasteful subsidies on gasonline obviously need to be eliminated, and this foolish move by the US Congress sets things up for the blame to be laid on the US. All-too-typical American stupidity.
Rehmat
Good article
I have a tremendous respect for both “Gilad Atzmon” and “Alan Hart”.
“The assertion/claim that Iran, even if it did have nuclear weapons, would pose a threat to Israel’s existence is nonsense – in my view out of truly mad minds.
If Iran launch a first strike on Israel, it, Iran, all of it, would be destroyed (by 400 Israeli and 9,000 US nuclear bombs). No Iranian leader would be that stupid.
The real problem for Israel’s leaders, if Iran did have an atomic bomb or two or several – and that’s still a very big IF – is that they would no longer enjoy more or less complete freedom to impose their will on the region,” Israel Shamir, a Russian-Israeli writer.
“Zionism wants today what it has always wanted: a maximum amount of land with a minimum number of Arabs on it.”
“The Israeli-Palestinian crisis is a cancer at the heart of international affairs that has the potential to consume us all unless it’s cured. Every man, woman and child has a stake in it.”
Cyrus,
“Lets see now…the Iranians say they have to have an indigenous capability to manufacture nuclear reactor fuel because foreign energy supplies can be interrupted for political reasons. So we try to convince them otherwise by…interrupting their foreign energy supplies.”
Pretty cynical, Cyrus. Next thing you know, you’ll be suggesting that Iran was naive in its 2003 “road map” to ask that the US refrain from regime-change efforts merely because the US had spent most of the preceding two decades ignoring its written promise to do just that.
Fiorangela…..
Looks like you have been reading Daniel Pipes to much. Zionist movement never dreamed of a “G-d’s lamb” occupation of Palestine. Their agenda has always been ‘Eretz Israel’ without native Muslim and Christian population since 1894. None of the Israeli leaders has forgotten that dream. Therefore, forget about two state solution being accepted by the Jew extremists. The only viable solution has been a ‘one democratic state’ with equal rights for its natives and foreign Jews.
The Israelis should learn that fact, sooner the better, for them and their coming generations – otherwise both Jews and Muslim-Christians will remain at war for many generations to come.
You don’t have to believe me – listen to people like Gilad Atzmon or Alan Hart, who have worse solution have for the ME problem than mine.
Alan Hart: Israel has no right to exist
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/alan-hart-israel-has-no-right-to-exist/
Rehmat -
“Once all those things achieved, the US and EU or UN will have no need to push Israel to de-nuclearize or stop invading the newly born Palestinian State (less East Jerusalem of course, which could be mandated to UN if Tel Aviv ever decide to vacate it) on cooked-up flimsy excuses…….”
. . . and then what?
Rogue leopard Israel will change its spots a become Israel the Lamb of god?
I think the Congress is essence helping the Iranian government out by providing them political cover for carrying out a very unpopular move that happens to be in their national interest. It really astounds why they have carried out these enormously wasteful subsidies for so long; money that could have been spent on better things like building infrastructure or R&D.
Cyrus….. Show whom? If you mean Iranians – then look around and see who is whining the most – Israel Lobby or Iranians?
k_w …… Not everybody – because the great majority of westerners are duped by their ZOGs and pro-Israel mainstream media.
Judging by the past record – the US and EU countries cannot be taken as ‘honest brokers’, because it were these very countries which imposed the Zionist state on an Arab land in the first place to solve Europe’s old “Jewish Solution”. What Obama administration has in mind – is to buy more time for Israel to Judeoize East Jerusalem and the West Bank; stop Iran and other Muslim nation-states in the region to pursue nuclear programs; impose a pro-USrael puppet-regime on Gazzah and rename it “Palestinian Bantu State”, which will result in the immediate recognition of Israel by the western puupets in the Arab League. Thus producing a united ‘Sunni Arab front’ against Islamic Republic and Hizb’Allah. After the Arab League has accepted Israel as a “Jewish State” – not only Palestinian Natives will lose their international right to return to their ancestral homes in Israel – plus, it will also give Zionist regime an excuse to expel its 20% of Arab population from Israel. Once all those things achieved, the US and EU or UN will have no need to push Israel to de-nuclearize or stop invading the newly born Palestinian State (less East Jerusalem of course, which could be mandated to UN if Tel Aviv ever decide to vacate it) on cooked-up flimsy excuses…….
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/obamas-middle-east-chutzpah/
Lets see now…the Iranians say they have to have an indigenous capability to manufacture nuclear reactor fuel because foreign energy supplies can be interrupted for political reasons. So we try to convince them otherwise by…interrupting their foreign energy supplies.
Great.
That’ll show em!
Rehmat,
Ahmadinejad wants to reduce the internal subsidy on gasoline, to reduce consumption, as you know.
The Financial Times today has an interesting report from Tehran, regarding expansion of the metro system and a dispute between the mayor and Ahamdinejad as to how to fund the expansion.
Utter stupidity from the US Congress, in dealing with Iran. What a surprise!
This just shows that the Americans are trying to hurt ordinary Iranians.
@Rehmat: So, if everybody knows this, and it is done though, could it be possible that some guys are still trying to prevent a war by making concessions to the Israel lobby in order to calm them down and to be able to impose pressure on Tel Aviv? (The ridiculous UN sanctions seem to go along with this.)
Pro-Israeli Foreign Policy (FP) magazine’s Gal Luft had argued in an article that “Iran is not much vulnerable to gasoline sanctions than is commonly believed on Capitol Hill and its foreign gasoline dependence is dropping by the day. The little known reason is that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has imposed dramatic measures to eliminate this stategic vulnerability. He has massively expanded the country’s refinery infrastructure. Seven of Iran’s nine existing refineries are undergoing expansion projects; seven new refineries are on the drawing board or already under construction. In three to five years, these projects will double Iran’s refining capacity, putting it on par with Saudi Arabia ……. By 2012, Iran is projected to be gasoline self-sufficient; shortly after that, the Islamic Republic is likely to become a net gasoline exporter…” Last Sunday, Dr. Ahmadinejad declared that Iran’s new budget for the 2010-2011 fiscal year would “lessen reliance on oil revenue” – a move at making the Islamic State less vulnerable to the new western sanctions…..
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/01/31/iranian-nuclear-saga-continues%e2%80%a6/