Next month will mark a decade since the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States, and major media outlets have already started their coverage. Much of that coverage will tell the American people that al-Qa’ida has been significantly degraded—especially through this year’s killing of its leader, Usama bin Ladin by U.S. forces in Pakistan—and that the United States needs to look for the next threat. To our minds, the most important thing that Americans could do would be to reflect, seriously and honestly, about the war on terror unleashed in response to the 9/11 attacks—to reflect on what actually prompted the attacks, and whether the ways in which the United States responded have actually made it more secure. To stimulate this kind of reflection, we recommend reading and pondering an article, see here, published by Michael Scheuer—former head of the CIA’s bin Ladin “unit” turned trenchant critic of America’s counter-terrorism strategy and Middle East policy—earlier this week in The National Interest .
The article, entitled “The Zawahiri Era”, is, first of all, an analytic tour de force, offering an unflinching look at the motives and strategy behind the 9/11 attacks, al-Qa’ida’s rather successful adaptation to the post-9/11 environment, and the movement’s future prospects under Ayman al-Zawahiri’s leadership. But the article is also much more than that; its second half is an equally unflinching look at the political circumstances that keep al-Qa’ida going, with a focus on the United States:
“BEYOND LEADERSHIP crises, changing tactics and mounting operations is one steadfast reality: al-Qaeda’s indispensable, long-term and utterly reliable ally—Washington’s interventionist foreign policy—remains the group’s true center of gravity. It is a galvanizing force which cannot be harmed, let alone destroyed, until U.S. leaders in politics, the media, religion (especially evangelical Protestants), the military and the academy begin to accept the truth; that is, the United States government is hated by most Muslims for what it does in the Islamic world, and not for how Americans think and behave at home…
“As al-Zawahiri takes charge, the U.S. government continues to: arm and defend the Saudi police state; depend on oil and debt purchases from Riyadh and other oil-rich Gulf tyrannies; keep military forces in the Arabian Peninsula, Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan; fund and defend Israel; fund and direct a new U.S.-NATO war on Libya; and assist the UN, EU and George Clooney in tearing out the oil-rich southern region of Muslim Sudan and giving it to a new Christian state. In other words, the powerful religious motivation for al-Qaeda and other Islamist groups to fight the United States and the West remains exactly what it was when bin Laden declared war in 1996—Israel, oil, intervention, occupation and support for tyranny.
“And one other key thing remains the same. President Obama continues to glibly lie to U.S. citizens, claiming—as did Presidents Bush and Clinton—that al-Qaeda, its allies and those they inspire are attacking us because they hate freedom, liberty, democracy, gender equality, elections and virtually every other thing Americans hold dear. The script of these presidents deftly scares U.S. citizens and ably prevents substantive foreign-policy debate. It is useless, however, for educating Americans about the deadly and growing enemy they face, one that hates their government, not them. There is no better recruiting strategy for the mujahideen in all parts of the globe than to pray for the maintenance of the status quo in U.S. and Western foreign policy in the Muslim world. With Obama et al at the helm, they have little to worry about…
“Then there is the Hillary Clinton–devised cultural war on Islam, now championed by Obama and Cameron as the proper response to the so-called Arab Spring. After the fall of the tyrannical Arab regimes in Tunis and Cairo, and the now ongoing slipping-away of those in Yemen, Libya and Syria, Secretary of State Clinton decided the time had come not only to out-Bush George but to by far out-Wilson the lamentable, bloody-handed Woodrow. Not only would she and her State Department bring freedom and democracy to the Arabs, but she would through decree—and with force if necessary—install Western-style women’s rights, freedom of religion, and the separation of church and state (which in Democratic doctrine means driving religion from both governance and the public square). In other words, Professor Huntington’s clash of civilizations is ready to be started and then driven not by caliphate-obsessed Islamist fanatics—as promised by the (usually) neocon reactionaries Walid Phares, Bernard Lewis, David Horowitz, Robert Spencer, and the Wall Street Journal, Weekly Standard and National Review—but by naive, well-meaning, ahistorical, antireligious, arrogant and largely Ivy League–trained ne’er-do-wells like Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, George W. Bush, and the editors and reporters of the New York Times and Washington Post.
“By declaring this cultural war on Islam, Barack Obama effectively applied a tourniquet to the wound inflicted on al-Qaeda and the Islamist movement by the SEALs’ killing of bin Laden. In the midst of uncertainties about the impact of that death, Obama told young Muslims worldwide that he was George W. Bush vis-à-vis U.S. policy in the Islamic world, even paraphrasing his predecessor’s zany ideas with such words as “we know that our own future [America’s] is bound to this region [the Arab world] by the forces of economics and security, by history and by faith.” The young-Muslim translation: U.S. and Western military, economic and political interventionism is here to stay, words that merely back up the signal sent by the U.S.-NATO war of whim on Libya, continuing drone strikes in Yemen, Pakistan and Somalia, and Mrs. Clinton’s thinly veiled military threats against Syria.
“But they also heard much more. They heard Obama pledge the U.S. government to the task of making Muslims into good, secular Westerners. In the speech, Obama left no room to doubt that he foolishly believes democracy is on the march in the Arab world and that he will use U.S. power to intervene and transform Islamic culture. This latest war on Islam was a gift to Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda and its Islamist allies, second in magnitude only to Bush’s jihad-justifying invasion and occupation of Iraq…
“[W]ars are never won by dead martyrs, rather by living and intelligent fighters who demonstrate courage, piety, prudence, patience, a reliable eye for the main chance, and—if God smiles on the warriors—an enemy who plays the part of a willing and effective foil, at times even that of a patsy. Al-Zawahiri takes charge in difficult and dangerous circumstances, but he faces a situation more promising than any al-Qaeda has encountered since its founding. All Americans should pray al-Zawahiri squanders his opportunity, as that may be the only way to avoid the military defeat and economic ruin the U.S. political elite seem eager to impose on their countrymen by refusing to face and combat the true sources of the Islamists’ motivation.”
–Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett
James and Unknown unknowns. On top of every other lie that Cheney repeated on MSNBC’s Morning Joes about WMD’s, Iraq etc he said the IAEA’s weapons inspectors had left. Uh they were told/forced to leave by the US. There were ongoing inspections when the US demanded that they leave. Not one of the individuals sitting around that MSNBC table challenged Cheney’s lies. Not one.
fyi,
And let’s remember that most Iraqi Shia are descendants of 19th century converts from Sunni Islam. At the time, of course, the Ottomans controlled what became Iraq.
fyi,
The Greek Christians of Constantinople preferred slaughter and rape by the Muslim forces of the Ottoman sultan, rather than submit to religious control from Rome. Was this the best way forward?
Rehmat says: September 1, 2011 at 12:04 pm
500 Years ago and not 300 years ago (1700).
Tehran did not become the capital of Iran until late in the 18-th century.
Like very many people, you misunderstand the nature of Iranian polity: it is the Mountain Fortress of the Shia Muslims in a sea of Sunni Islam.
Shia Religion is what is keeping them together.
R Stewart,
Are you arguing that because Osama bin Laden used his terror network against the USSR, and was encouraged to do so by the US, he did not have a terror network?
You insult your readers intelligence about al-qaeda. There is a growing awareness that al queda — Arab translation: the toilet — is the creation of covert Western agencies. Just as bin Laden was once in the employ of U.S. covert ops during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. You ommission to even mention this hints at your contempt for your readers. Just as you omit to mention covert Western funding and support for other alleged “Muslim extremists”.
Your arrogant belief that your readers won’t know this says it all… We are just sheeple, dumb goyim who you are trying to herd into another war on Israel’s behalf.
Unknown Unknowns,
I assume you are aware that Hamid Karzai wants good relations with Iran, but he would like a continuing presence of some US troops after 2014?
Unknown Unknowns,
You appear to say there is no distinction to draw between Nato and the US? How do you explain the determination of Dick Cheney and Condoleezza Rice to punish Germany and France after they refused to allow a further UNSC resolution on Iraq unless the weapons inspectors got more time to look for WMD in Iraq?
Do you agree that most countries in Nato want out of Afghanistan?
James Canning says:
September 1, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Unknown Unknowns,
Surely you are aware that most of the countries involved in the Nato campaign in Afghanistan want to end that involvement.
*
NATO, in other words, the entity formerly known as the United States and now run amok by a cabal of warmongering kidnappers, may want to “end that involvement”, but on what terms? Withdrawing and letting that rag-tag nation determine its own destiny? Or remaining there with one of the largest embassy-cum-military compounds in the world, and with airbases in Herat province, a stone’s throw away from Iran?
Come on, James. Get real. Wake up and small the cordite. Or should I say nano-thermite? :D
Empty:
That a 19th century tactic (divide and rule the Muslims) is being recycled and re-used in 21st century, an information age, only demonstrates a has-been and worn-out mentality belonging to the same league as atomic weapons and Guantanamo and Abu-Gharib tortures.
*
Nicely done, especially the atomic weapons part.
BiBiJon,
Are you actually arguing that the US is in Afghanistan to gain great wealth? Obama is pouring $10 billion per month into this quagmire. And the quagmire has nothing to do with “containing” China. Or Russia. Or India.
China is getting ready to operate one of the largest copper mines on the planet, in Afghanistan. With security costs paid by the US. Som how does this situation cause you to see an effort from the US to garner wealth in the country?
Humanist says:
September 1, 2011 at 1:06 pm
A good post on Islamophobia The decade’s biggest scam
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Yes. And I believe it was my good friend and Moslem revert, Kevin Barrett, in his excellent book, *Questioning the War on Terror – A Primer for Obama Voters* who first pointed out that more people die from being struck by lightning than do at the hands of “Moslem” extremists.
For those who enjoy seeing someone hold his own against that fearmonger and hatemonger Sean [Ins]Hannity, I recommend this little gem of a clip. It does a body good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzIzoD-MhIE
Unknown Unknowns,
Surely you are aware that most of the countries involved in the Nato campaign in Afghanistan want to end that involvement.
This has to be the starting point for any understanding of the strategic situation in Central Asia.
Most Nato countries comprehend that China, Russia and Iran are part of the solution to the chronic instability in Afghanistan. Not part of the problem.
Kooshy,
That’s a beautiful poem. I look forward to reading your interesting posts and your help with my unskilled translations. :)
Irsahd says,
“Can anyone who knows the “policy” or the politics of this in Iran please comment:
;;http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/31/iran-forbids-sunni-eid-prayers Sunni Muslims banned from holding own Eid prayers in Tehran Security police block access to houses rented by Sunni minority for worship…”
The policy of Islamic Republic of Iran is stated in the Constitution and is very specific with respect to Ahl_e Sunnat. Translation/Interpretation of Articles 10 and 11 are as follows:
Article 10: “According to dignified [Quranic] verse, ان هذه امتکم امه واحده و انا ربکم فاعبدون , all Muslims are of one Ummah and it is the duty of the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran to found its overall general policy on the basis of bringing together/bringing cohesion among as well as uniting all Muslim nations and to steadfastly/continuously move toward a realization of a united political, economic, and cultural Islamic world.”
Article 11: “Iran’s official religion is Islam and the doctrine of Ja’afari 12-Imamer that is an unchanging principle and the followers of other Islamic doctrines such as Hanafi, Shafe’I, Maleki, Hanbali, and Zeydi are fully respected and the followers of these doctrines are free to practice their religious traditions in accordance to their “fiqh” and in teaching, training, personal affairs (marriage, divorce, inheritance, and wills) and related grievances in the court systems they are officially recognized and in any regions where the followers of these doctrines are a majority, local rules within the jurisdiction of the councils would be based on those doctrines while protecting the rights of the followers of other doctrines.”
Source: ;http://rc.majlis.ir/fa/content/iran_constitution
As for the politics surrounding the issue, they are very much localized depending on where you are. For example, I was in two different places on Tuesday one town in Tehran province and one in Alborz province. Both places have relatively good size Sunni populations (mostly Afghani brothers and sisters). Both places, part of the population celebrated Tuesday as Eid Fitr and part (also Sunni) celebrated Wednesday as Eid Fitr. They used the three local mosques where both Sunni and Shi’a populations regularly attend. In general, Shi’a “eghteda” in prayers that are led by a Sunni prayer imam and I have also observed that younger Sunni boys and girls nowadays “eghteda” to Shi’a prayer imams (something that wasn’t happening even 15 years ago). I believe this is largely due to the Iranian government’s effort in creating cohesion among all Muslims especially after the West was pushing for Shi’a-Sunni divide in Iraq and Pakistan from 2003 onward.
Now regarding the article from the guardian that you posted, it is not surprising in its deceptiveness and what it is trying to accomplish. Followings are just some examples:
1. It tries (tacitly) to create some sort of qualitative equivalence between “gatherings in homes” to “gatherings in mosques” in the mind of its readers.
2. It tries (again, tacitly) to insert, yet again, Baha’i sect/Bahaism, a political sect with its origins to 19th Century/British and now Israeli puns, as a religious equivalence of Sunni doctrines.
3. It promotes a lie attributed to “Shaikh Abdul-Hameed Esmail Zehi, a Sunni prayer imam in Zahedan.” I’d be very much interested to hear if and when he had said anything even remotely close to this.
4. It falsely asserts that Iranian government “blamed Sunnis for recent bombings in south Iran.” This lie cannot get more blatant than this. Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the media, news, and government’s announcement knows that this statement is completely false.
5. It tries to paint a picture that Iran’s stance with some of the puppet governments in the region is because they are “Sunni-ruled countries.”
That a 19th century tactic (divide and rule the Muslims) is being recycled and re-used in 21st century, an information age, only demonstrates a has-been and worn-out mentality belonging to the same league as atomic weapons and Guantanamo and Abu-Gharib tortures.
Unknown Unknowns,
Chances of a criminal prosecution of Dick Cheney are zero. Zero. Much better to put more effort into exposing the collusive scheme in American media to protect the conspirators who knowingly set up an illegal invasion of Iraq by deceiving the American public, the US Congress, and the president in the White House.
Unknown Unknowns,
I think the reason commentators on American news programmes tend to avoid the issue of how the Office of Special Plans in the Pentagon carried out the conspiracy to deceive the Congress and the public, to set up the illegal invasion of Iraq, is that rich and powerful Jews were at the heart of the conspiracy.
Why was Israel’s intentional attack on the USS Liberty in June 1967 covered up by the US government and the media? One reason is that Israel was seen as an important ally in challenging efforts by the Soviet Union to undermine “the West”. The bigger reason is that supporters of Israel in the US did not want the public to know the truth because it would have caused so much outcry that the US would have been obliged to give strong support to the UK’s effort at the UN to force Israel out of the territories occupied during the 1967 war.
James Canning says:
August 31, 2011 at 6:41 pm
Unknown Unknowns,
That was a preposterous comment you posted (by someone who does not post on this site). And it does not even make sense. For example, stability in Afghanistan will require cooperation and help from Russia, China and Iran. And such help would be to the benefit of Nato as it looks for ways to get out of the country.
*
So you don’t think that there is a power struggle going on between the US (& its NATO minions) who is struggling to hold on what power it has and to expand it to what it believes in its delusional fantasy is in the realm of possibility, namely “Full-Spectrum Dominance”, and that other players such as Russia, China, and not least, Iran, are pushing back against this dynamic?
My post took that as a given, and posed the question (which sadly, no-one has really taken up as yet) that Barry White ran on a platform of “Change you can believe in” et cetera et cetera et cetera ad infinitum et ad nausium. But once he was in the Oval Orifice, the neo-con neo-imperialist policy of “humanitarian imperialis” not only continued unabated, but gained steam.
I was just wondering: WTF???
Anyone?
Here’s my original post:
So lets see how this works. Barry White gets elected and decides that this is what his foreign policy is going to be? Doubtful, but certainly possible. Or 2) Barry holds his dick in his hand while the NSC tells his how the game is played and what today’s play is. He gets to be QB, but the coach is sitting by the sidelines making sure Barry’s every play is according to the book, his book, the book of the Bilderbergers (including the Crown family, Zbig, and the rest of the motley crew).
I’m really not sure what the situation is. I’m not even sure I have framed the issue correctly, the issue of policy decision-making and control. Anyone care to comment?
A good post on Islamophobia The decade’s biggest scam
James Canning says:
September 1, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Kathleen,
Very good question you raised: why no inquiry into the Office of Special Plans, on any programme looking at Dick Cheney’s claims that Iraq had WMD? Is it because most of the officials in that Office were Jews, closely associated with Israel? And because some of those officials sought to gain great wealth from the illegal invasion of Iraq they conspired to set up?
*
As Glen Greenwald stated on Democracy Now a couple of days ago, it is because of Barry White’s illegal and unconstitutional policy of not prosecuting torturers and murderers.
Enough dickin’ around with Cheney; its time to Pinochet him!
BiBiJon says:
James needs to look at a map.
*
Methinks rather James needs to take a nap :D
Castellio,
I think the Wall Street Journal Aug. 31st had a long article about Exxon’s deal in the Russian Arctic (replacing BP).
Kathleen,
Very good question you raised: why no inquiry into the Office of Special Plans, on any programme looking at Dick Cheney’s claims that Iraq had WMD? Is it because most of the officials in that Office were Jews, closely associated with Israel? And because some of those officials sought to gain great wealth from the illegal invasion of Iraq they conspired to set up?
Kathleen says: Why is it that we never hear and see Flynt Leverett on any of the MSM outlets?
*
Well, we all know the answer to that. But the question I have, to which I have no clue as to the answer, is:
Why is it that we never hear and see Flynt Leverett on his own blog?! LOL
Rehmat:
fyi – You better update your Talmud. 300 year ago Persia was a Sunni-majority country. It became Shia-majority during the last years of Safvid dynasty.
*
Incorrect. In the summer of 1501, Shah Ismail, a 14 year old boy, having conquered Azerbaijan, rose on a pulpit in Tabriz, his capital, and declared that he had received a vision that he would conquer all of Iran and bring it to the correct rite (madhhab). The entirety of the Iranian empire was indeed conquered within less than a decade, and Iran’s conversion to the Ja’fari madhhab was by and large complete by the end of the century.
The 300 years ago that you talk about (circa 1700) is when the Safavid empire came to a close.
Clint,
You might find interesting some of the stories about Shamai Leibowitz that can be found online. He was the Israeli-American lawyer, hired by the FBI to listen to ccnversations in Hebrew, by Israeli officials conspiring with various Americans to set up war with Iran on false pretenses. Leibowitz was sent to prison, while no action has been taken against the participants in the conspiracy.
Why is it that we never hear and see Flynt Leverett on any of the MSM outlets? Contact them.
Cheney was on MSNBC’s Morning Joe. Providing yet another opportunity for Cheney to repeat his WMD lies and never of course under oath. Mostly softball questions. Although MiKe Barnacle asked about troops not having necessary equipment. Mika asked about Powell being hung out to dry at the UN. Joe actually asked about WMD’s
So here are a few follow up questions for Cheney and the Morning Joe team.
Cheney said the WMD intelligence came from the Clinton administration. Why was it Joe, Mika etc did not mention that the false WMD intelligence came out of the Pentagons Office of Special Plans, the office of Net Assessment and the White House Iraq Group. Lt Col Karen Kwiatowski, the Nations Jason Vest (in the Nation in the fall of 2002), New Yorkers Seymour Hersh have all written extensively about where the false WMD intelligence came from.
Not one of the Morning Joe team asked Cheney an extremely obvious question. If he was so concerned about WMD’s in Iraq. Why did he help take out Valerie Plame the very person tracking the path of WMD’s. Why did he avoid testifying under oath about the outing of Plame?
Questions the Morning Joe team should have asked and can still ask.
1. Why did Cheney out Plame when she was the very person following the path of WMD’s in that part of the world?
2. How did he get away with not testifying under oath
3, Why did he try to undermine Comey and Ashcroft’s decisions?
4. Why did he undermine international agreements by pushing and implementing torture?
5. Why did he wiretap Powell? Release those NSA intercepts that congress had been demanding.
6. Why after the head of the IAEA El Baradei stated in early March of 2003 that the Niger Documents were forgeries did the MSM continue to allow the Bush administration to repeat these lies
7. Tenet has said that they contacted the Bush administration and said that those 16 words were wrong and they did not support the use of them. Why did Stephen Hadley/Cheney put those 16 words back in that speech?
The guest that the Morning Joe team should have on to respond to Cheney’s continued lies?
1. Duelfer (Cheney made false claims about the Duelfer Report on Morning Joe’s)
2 Plame and Joe Wilson ( Cheney made so many claims about WMD’s that they were hard to count
3. The counterterrosim expert Richard Clarke who the Bush administration would not directly communicate with during the Bush/Clinton administrations.
Challenge the lies. The very least the MSM can do for those who have needleslly lost their lives, been injured, displaced based on this 5 time deferred coward’s lies. Challenge this war criminal…. all ready. The least they can do. Get his heart rate going…the least they can do
fyi
If some Sunni Muslims are saying that a Shia Prayer Leader is against their religion, then it follows that they are implicitly saying that the Shia are not Muslims.
*
Correct. There are *ahkaam* going back hundreds of years (and as recently as a decade ago from al-Azhar) about the permissibility of praying behind Sunni/ Shi’a imams and vice versa, and indeed, about the validity of all *five* schools of Islamic law (Maleki, Hanafi, Shafi’i, Hanbali & Ja’fari). It is only the takfiris among the Salafi & Wahhabis that deny a millenium of tradition (being true to their modernist nature), and as such, again according to all five schools, by averring kufr on a Moslem or a community of Moslems, they thereby “withdraw” themselves from the fold of the religion. The word ‘withdraw’ is used advisedly, as these vermin are nothing more that the modern adumbration of that accursed sectlet, the khawaarij. For those who do not know, these were the people that ‘withdrew’ from the community in the early years of the community (during the reign of the five (count ‘em) ‘Rightly Guided’ Caliphs, and one of whose members eventually killed Imam ‘Ali (may the peace of God be with him) by stabbing him with a poisoned dagger. These are what can justly be called the neo-Khawaarij or neo-Kaarijites.
And the Guardian is doing its duty to the Crown by fanning the flames of sedition.
Irshad:
That’s all.
I’ll hit the snooze button on sectarian strife in Iran. Wake me when the Sunnis of Iran are being treated worse than the Shi’a of Wahhabistan. And is doing so under conditions in which it has very friendly relations with the world’s sole superpower, and Wahhabistan is under sanctions by same, who is trying to choke its lifeblood out of it and kill it. Yawn.
Libya, NATO, Islamists and Israel
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/libya-nato-islamists-and-israel/
fyi – You better update your Talmud. 300 year ago Persia was a Sunni-majority country. It became Shia-majority during the last years of Safvid dynasty.
Irshad says: September 1, 2011 at 7:24 am
It could be true as far as Tehran goes.
In Tehran, to my knowledge, there has never been a single Sunni mosque over the last 300 years.
I other areas of Iran, such as Kurdistan, Khuzestan, Khorasan, Kerman, Sistan & Baluchistan there are numerous such mosques.
In previous years, the local Tehran Government had designated some sites for the Eid prayers. I heard that was so in this year as well.
This is also subject to vicissitudes of internal and external politics of the Islamic Republic of Iran.
But these sites are largely parks and gardens, and not mosques.
Note that the Shia Iranians when praying in Saudi Arabia often have been led by a Sunni Muslim Imam; the Iranians never claimed that it is against their religion to (eqtedah) be behind a Sunni Prayer Leader.
If some Sunni Muslims are saying that a Shia Prayer Leader is against their religion, then it follows that they are implicitly saying that the Shia are not Muslims.
Libya and the shameless rewriting of history is well worth reading although it leaves out some important subjects such as China’s investment in Libyan oil, preplanning, magnitude (# of sorties) and ruthlessness of NATO devastations etc.
Why the Egyptians hate us — an Israeli view:
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-reason-why-the-egyptians-hate-us-1.381074
“It is becoming exhausting to reiterate this, but it is now truer than ever: Israel no longer has the option of living only by the sword. The dangers inherent in the new reality that is emerging before our very eyes are not of the type that military prowess alone can overcome for years. We cannot gird ourselves forever, no matter how protected and armed we are. The new Arab leaderships will not be able to ignore the desires of their peoples, and their peoples will not accept Israel as a violent occupier in the region. Not only does an Operation Cast Lead become almost impossible, the continued occupation endangers Israel – the longer it lasts, the stronger the resistance to Israel’s very existence. “
Clint says:
September 1, 2011 at 8:14 am
The emperor is a streaker!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-82-a0LQJLX8/Tl6rB6Y1d2I/AAAAAAAAAIY/4LJqP_7APjk/s1600/wl.png
Link t the NYTimes story on the censored report:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/25/us/25debate.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2
“In 2009, when the Department of Homeland Security produced a report, “Rightwing Extremism,” suggesting that the recession and the election of an African-American president might increase the threat from white supremacists, conservatives in Congress strongly objected. Janet Napolitano, the homeland security secretary, quickly withdrew the report and apologized for what she said were its flaws.
“Daryl Johnson, the Department of Homeland Security analyst who was the primary author of the report, said in an interview that after he left the department in 2010, the number of analysts assigned to non-Islamic militancy of all kinds was reduced to two from six….
“The killings in Norway “could easily happen here,” he said. The Hutaree, an extremist Christian militia in Michigan accused last year of plotting to kill police officers and planting bombs at their funerals, had an arsenal of weapons larger than all the Muslim plotters charged in the United States since the Sept. 11 attacks combined, he said.”
This report by the US Dept. of Homeland Security on domestic rightwing extremism was withdrawn after opposition by some conservative
members of the US Congress — it is still available at FAS.org and worth re-visiting in light of the horrific terrorist acts in Norway:
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf
And the NYTimes story on the censored report:
[July 25]
“In 2009, when the Department of Homeland Security produced a report, “Rightwing Extremism,” suggesting that the recession and the election of an African-American president might increase the threat from white supremacists, conservatives in Congress strongly objected. Janet Napolitano, the homeland security secretary, quickly withdrew the report and apologized for what she said were its flaws.
“Daryl Johnson, the Department of Homeland Security analyst who was the primary author of the report, said in an interview that after he left the department in 2010, the number of analysts assigned to non-Islamic militancy of all kinds was reduced to two from six….
“The killings in Norway “could easily happen here,” he said. The Hutaree, an extremist Christian militia in Michigan accused last year of plotting to kill police officers and planting bombs at their funerals, had an arsenal of weapons larger than all the Muslim plotters charged in the United States since the Sept. 11 attacks combined, he said.”
Can anyone who knows the “policy” or the politics of this in Iran please comment:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/31/iran-forbids-sunni-eid-prayers
Sunni Muslims banned from holding own Eid prayers in TehranSecurity police block access to houses rented by Sunni minority for worship
Sunni Muslims in Tehran have been banned from congregating at prayers marking the end of Ramadan.
Iran, a Shia country, ordered its Sunni minority not to hold separate prayers in Tehran for Eid al-Fitr, the Muslim festival that brings the month of fasting to an end. They were instead asked to have a Shia imam leading their prayers – something that is against their religious beliefs.
Hundreds of security police were deployed in the capital to prevent Sunni worshippers from entering houses they rent for religious ceremonies.
In recent decades, Iranian authorities have refused Sunnis permission to build their own mosques in Tehran. There is currently no Sunni mosque in the capital, despite there being several churches and synagogues for much smaller Christian and Jewish populations. .
“Tehran’s security police prevented Sunni worshippers from performing Eid prayers in various parts of the capital,” the official website of the Sunni community in Iran said. “They surrounded the houses where Sunnis perform prayers and have prevented worshippers from going inside.”
Thousands of Shia worshipers on Wednesday stood in rows behind Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who led the crowd at prayers held in Tehran University. The Iranian regime uses Eid prayers to demonstrate that the country’s political figures are united behind its leader. Politicians from different groups are supposed to attend the prayers and their absence can be interpreted as a sign of dissent.
Under the Iranian constitution, religious minorities should be respected and should have representatives in parliament. Two days ago, several Sunni MPs wrote a letter to the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, asking for their communities in Tehran to be allowed to hold separate Eid prayers.
Sunnis in Tehran have complained in recent weeks of being told by officials to provide written assurances guaranteeing not to hold Eid prayers in houses in the capital.
Shaikh Abdul-Hameed Esmail Zehi, a Sunni prayer imam in Zahedan, a city in south-east Iran, criticised the regime in a recent sermon for imposing restrictions on Sunnis.
“I would like to request the supreme leader to stop discriminative and illegal steps of some officials, as they have been forbidding Sunni minorities in mega cities of Iran to offer prayers in congregation specially Eidain [the Eids] and Friday prayers. This is the demand of all Sunnis in Iran,” he said, in quotes carried by the Sunni community’s website, Sunnionline.us.
Iran boasts that its Shia and Sunni populations get along, but Sunnis have complained of a crackdown by the Islamic regime in recent years. The regime, which has blamed Sunnis for recent bombings in south Iran, is at odds with most of the Sunni-ruled countries in the Middle East.
Other religious minorities in Iran have been facing restrictions. Seven leaders of the Bahá’í community are serving 20-year jail sentences. Bahá’ís in Iran are deprived of rights such as education or owning businesses and are often persecuted for their beliefs.
Last week, the Bahá’í community’s United Nations office wrote (pdf) to Iran’s minister of science and technology, Kamran Daneshjoo, calling on the regime to end discrimination against Bahá’í students who recently had their universities closed.
kooshy says:
August 31, 2011 at 8:33 pm
Thanks , your very kind my dear man.
Disinformation and agitprop is an art form that has been perfected by NY Times particularly in the deceitful penmanship of Michael S. Schmidt.
Here’s one. The message: Iran’s been killing American troops for the past 8 years.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/world/middleeast/01iraq.html?_r=1&hp
Under increased pressure from the United States, an Iraqi crackdown on Iranian-backed Shiite militias has helped produce a previously elusive goal: For the first time since the American invasion of Iraq, an entire month has passed without a single United States service member dying.
…
In all, 4,465 American soldiers have died here since the United States invasion in 2003, according to Defense Department figures. American military commanders attribute the drop in deaths to the Iraqi government finally pushing back against Iran and the Shiite militias, as well as aggressive unilateral strikes by United States forces.
Anyone have a link to the un-redacted Wikileaks archives?
Why it will continue:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/08/29/terrorism/index.html
On AQ and the unending GWOT — not that I agree with everything this guys says:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/08/30/the_long_wars_long_tail?page=full
BiBiJon says: August 31, 2011 at 9:16 pm
What you have descibed is strategic pipe dream.
It cannot be ralized for the simple reason that there is no state in Afghanistan – and one cannot be built organically in less that 2 generations.
If anyone knows where to find good information on the Russian-Exxon deal in the high arctic, I’d like to read it. Thanks in advance.
Noam Chomsky: ‘As long they get the backing of dictators, it doesn’t matter to western governments what Arab populations think’ – video
The 19th century … 2001 … today. Noam Chomsky sees hegemonic powers showing extreme contempt for democracy – and acting in ways they know will increase terrorism
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/video/2011/aug/31/noam-chomsky-terrorism-video
Names have been named
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/01/unredacted-us-embassy-cables-online
Unknown Unknowns says:
August 31, 2011 at 6:02 pm
It is difficult to imagine the splendor of European capitals, the opulence of cathedrals, and palaces without riches of ‘empires’ they once ruled.
James needs to look at a map.
Afghanistan is itself chock full of mineral resources (think opulent new office tower in London). Af-Pak by total coincidence happens be the only pipe route for Azeri oil, and Turkmenistani gas that bypasses both Russia and Iran. Af-Pak also by total coincidence happens to be a handy geographic base of ‘operations’ if by chance anyone needed to ‘contain’ China, Russia, and India. That would just leave unattended 2 letters, BS, out of the BRICS. Hey, Iraq is being vacated after a mere 8 years. Afghanistan, on the other hand, started 2 years earlier, and projected to continue under occupation until 2024 ,http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8712701/US-troops-may-stay-in-Afghanistan-until-2024.html
Walt+Mearsheimer’s Lobby, PNAC cabal, Jacob Heilbrunn’s neo-conservatives, Eisenhower’s MIC, and a retarded GW happened to our planet. BHO has proven oratory prowess makes no difference.
So, yes the game has started, and cannot be stopped. Barry might not say it, but it is actions that count: You are with us or against us.
Gary Wexler on Israeli porn campaign
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/gary-wexler-on-israeli-porn-campaign/
nahid says:
August 31, 2011 at 5:27 pm
“Dose anybody have any thought for this man?”
http://www.parstimes.com/gallery/ahmad_eghtedari/
Here is one of his lectures I just found on internet this was done in UCLA
James
You say What causes you to claim Rory Stewart is“not someone you can trust”?
Although I agree with Rory’s conclusions on Afghan war (that is why I posted his impressive speech)
here ) I don’t remember encountering any trustworthy Western conservative (especially as far as “ruling Middle Eastern countries” is concerned)
I’ll appreciate if you introduce one or some of them to me. I’ll research their work. If I change my mind I’ll be thankful to you forever for correcting my error(s).
nahid says:
August 31, 2011 at 5:27 pm
“Dose anybody have any thought for this man?”
Nahid, I have read many interviews and articles of Dr. Mojtahedzadeh in the past, is hard to confirm whatever he claims, however if you want to research on history of Persian gulf, Navigations in the gulf and Iran and Arab gulf states relations, I think the most credible scholarly work is done by Ahmad Eghtedari who has a special Persian Gulf research section in the Great Islamic Encyclopedia library in northern Tehran and often you can see him there.
James Canning says: August 31, 2011 at 6:35 pm
So, not much.
In the event of war between Axis Powers and Iran, in one day they could recoup all of that.
Those who underestimate Russia will live to regret it.
Ron Paul: Cut Foreign Aid, Unshackle Israel, Leave Iran Alone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwguHyXgbgM&feature=player_embedded#!
James Canning says:
I recommend William Rivers Pitts, “Dick Cheney, the Ultimate American Terrorist”
http://www.truth-out.org/ultimate-american-terrorist/1314801556
I also recommend the comments related to this article, especially the one from ‘GreatStoneFace’ regarding the effects of depleted uranium dropped on people.
UU,
Zbig Brzyzinski and William Odom told G W Bush not to make threats against Iran and not to push for regime change. They wrote a good piece in the Washington Post May 27, 2008 on that topic: “A Sensible Path on Iran”. Warmongering neocons and other fanatical “supporters” of Israel have pressed Obama to ignore Zbig’s excellent advice.
And, of course, we have the continuing stupidity of Hillary Clinton.
Unknown Unknowns,
Did Zbigniew Brzezinski think the US invasion of Iraq was a blunder and that all US forces should be pulled out?
Unknown Unknowns,
That was a preposterous comment you posted (by someone who does not post on this site). And it does not even make sense. For example, stability in Afghanistan will require cooperation and help from Russia, China and Iran. And such help would be to the benefit of Nato as it looks for ways to get out of the country.
I recommend William Rivers Pitts, “Dick Cheney, the Ultimate American Terrorist”
http://www.truth-out.org/ultimate-american-terrorist/1314801556
fyi,
Zurich Capital Management said Gazprom would lose $240 million if its gas interests in Libya are cancelled.
A bit on Russian oil and gas at some risk in Libya:
http://rt.com/business/news/lybia-russia-oil-contracts-123-955/
A commenter on Uskowi says,
What NATO is doing is saying that any country that is allied with Russia/China and not with NATO will be overthrown by military force under the pretext of helping their people (even if the NATO invasion winds up killing tens of thousands). Meanwhile, countries favorable to NATO will have their popular protests suppressed by military force. Such brazen imperialism is unseen for decades.
I agree with him. I think it is a post-Gerorge the Younger neocon policy that is being called ‘Humanitarian Imperialism’ or some other such oxymoronic term in the blogistans (as in, ‘the internets. LOL).
So lets see how this works. Barry White gets elected and decides that this is what his foreign policy is going to be? Doubtful, but certainly possible. Or 2) Barry holds his dick in his hand while the NSC tells his how the game is played and what today’s play is. He gets to be QB, but the coach is sitting by the sidelines making sure Barry’s every play is according to the book, his book, the book of the Bilderbergers (including the Crown family, Zbig, and the rest of the motley crew).
I’m really not sure what the situation is. I’m not even sure I have framed the issue correctly, the issue of policy decision-making and control. Anyone care to comment?
fyi,
I will try to get a valuation of Russian oil interest in Libya. For a while, Italy was worried it could lose (or ENI could lose) its valuable oil and gas interests, due to the Nato war, if Gaddafi had prevailed.
A Swiss newspaper reported recently that Exxon was trying to benefit from Russia’s potential loss of its Libyan oil interest, but I thought this was unlikely. Exxon deal with Russian oil co. suggests I was correct, but we will see. (Deal in Arctic)
nahid says: August 31, 2011 at 5:27 pm
It is true what Dr. Modjtahedi write.
Unfortunately it is only because Arab leaders are so bad that one could say a few kind words about Mr. Qaddafi.
Everything is Spain that works and works well dates to the government of the late General Franco.
It is a damning thing when the best you can say about a leader is how he treated or helped foreigners.
James Canning says: August 31, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Russian interests in Libyan oils are exactly how much: how many billions of dollars a year?
They will recoup their losses, in any, in Libya in the first few days of the Axis-Iran War.
Please note that strategically, a nuclear armed Russia is an unassailable source of the energy to the world.
She cannot be intimidated, bullied, or bombed.
If I were a European, a Japanese, or a Chinese, I would look quite favorably on nuclear Russia.
This is what Axis Powers have wrought; making nuclear-armed energy-rich states now something that is plausibly in the interests of the rest of the world.
PressTV has picked up the story on how fanatical supporters of Israel in the US are promoting Islamophobia.
http://www.presstv.com/detail/196741.html
Dose anybody have any thought for this man?
http://www.zamannews.ir/View.aspx?ID=900610013
Dose anybody have any thought for this man?
fyi,
Don’t the Russians have an important oil interest in Libya, and one they worried about losing? Russia did not support western military intervention in Libya, and Russia will not allow a UNSC resolution allowing an attack on the Syrian government, as things now stand.
Anyone notice Roger Cohen’s comment in The New York Times: “In the end, I think interventionism is inextricable from the American idea.” Great news: endless war.
http://www.livescience.com/15857-talk-kids-9-11-terrorist-attacks.html
Thank you Nickelodeon and APA for partnering up to make sure that all children who weren’t old enough to process the canned story of what happened on September 11, 2001 (and why) that has been crammed down our throats for the last 10 years, get a chance to become fully indoctrinated. Among the esteemed guests is former Bush Press Secretary Ari Fleischer. I’m sure he’ll give the youth an objective view of who attacked the citizens of the US and why.
Exerpt from the Nickelodeon announcement:
Nick News also assembles experts to take on kids’ questions about 9/11 and its aftermath. Tackling kids’ queries about who was responsible and their motives, sentiment toward Muslims in America since the attacks and the significance of Osama Bin Laden’s death…
000http://biz.viacom.com/sites/nickelodeonpress/NICKELODEON/Pages/showpdf.aspx?FileName=Nick%20News_The%20Story%20of%20Sept%2011%20(2).pdf&ListName=Press%20Releases&ItemID=584
Erik Larson’s latest book, In the Garden of Beasts, has received almost uniformly positive reviews. I’m not quite half-way through the book, but so far, I disagree with the majority. The first question that comes to mind is, Why did Larson write a book about Nazi Germany just at this time?
In trying to divine motivations for the publication of a book whose title Larsen himself admits is “inflammatory,” further incongruities emerge: Why does the author choose to savage the then-obscure, long dead, ultimately irrelevant daughter of the ambassador to Germany in the years 1933-1937? Does focusing on her peccadilloes reveal stunning new information that rounds out the history of the era, or, rather, is Larson’s goal to cast a black shadow on all of German society by drawing attention to the many failings of one young woman as she experienced German society in Berlin in 1933-37?
If it was the author’s intent to present a new and comprehensive understanding of the period, why does he not even mention, much less discuss zionism and its heightened activities and pervasiveness in that era? How is it that the author devotes several pages to interpreting for the reader the affect of Goebbels’ smile, but makes no comment whatsoever at the extraordinary coincidence of the presence of Rabbi Stephen Wise on the very ship that bore Ambassador Dodd and his family from New York to Germany? Wise was head of the American Jewish Congress and close collaborator with Samuel Untermyer, Hitler’s bitterest foe? Untermyer’s bitter enmity toward Hitler emerged full-blown within a month of the German leader’s ascension to the chancellorship, and years in advance of any clearly documented assaults on Jewish persons in Germany. An alert reader would like to know how it came about that Wise booked passage on the very same ship as the new ambassador to Germany, at the same time that Wise was also engaged in imposing a boycott on Germany, with the goal of choking off the export trade that, in Untermyer’s words, “Germany depended upon for its existence.”
The boycott was called a “defensive” measure against the “persecution of Jews” in Germany, but Untermyer appears to have targeted the wrong “foe.” In those early years, it was the Storm Troopers (SA), the Brown Shirts, that engaged in sporadic street violence that occasionally, but not frequently, targeted Jewish persons, but that most often directed violence toward Germans who were deemed insufficiently patriotic. Larson obfuscates rather than clarifies the fact that Hitler worked to rein in the SA, not least by means of the brutal purge of the leaders of the Brown Shirts, starting with the assassination of the SA’s leader, Ernst Rohm.
Following the many twists and turns and red herrings in Larson’s narrative are like tracking Bre’r Rabbit. What is Larson trying to keep the reader from finding out?
WTF says: August 31, 2011 at 12:18 pm
A NATO (or Coalition of the Willing) War against Iran serves Russian interests quite well.
They have no stakes in the Middle East, they have no alliances with anyone, and the Middle Eastern states are not great markets, or strategic competitors, or anything else.
As long as they can help Iran maintain her indpendent power status and keep the Western powers as well as their local enablers – such as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabbia – out of Southern Russia, war will not harm them.
In fact, by potentially destroying the oil producing capacities of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar, war would make a big contribution to Russia on energy front alone.
She will be the safe supplier to Europe, to China, and to Japan.
Meanwhile, the Western states and all who think that West-knows-what-she-is-doing crowd will be shivering in an energy-starved world – just think of Japan and South Korea.
And this stratgeic escalation to nowhere by the Western states, potentially harming all oil-inmporting countries of the world, is, in my opinion, the silent witness to their foolishness.
The SS-300 hundreds were one of those nice-to-have weapons. But their short range, small numbers, and other limitations would not have made them a strategic game-changer for Iran. Only deployed nuclear weapons would have that effect.
It is hard to see any scenario under which Russians will incur costs in the confronation between NATO/US&EU/Axis Powers and Iran. It is always upside for them.
Americans of course know that by just like the religious war in Palestine they have lost control of the dynamics of the situation.
Castellio says:
August 26, 2011 at 7:03 pm
thank you for passing along the cautionary tale of the Merchant and the Parrot — and also for reminding me of one of the qualities about Iranians that I admire (tho I’ve never met an Iranian psychiatrist); namely, the capacity for forbearance, and for communicating necessary correction in a kindly fashion. Spoon full of sugar . . .
WTF,
I have a strong feeling Israel told Russia that Israel would not attack Iran, if Russia did not deliver the S-300 systems to Iran. Unless it became clear Iran was building nukes on the sly.
WTF,
Would delivery of the S-300 systems been a “great deterrent” to the Israeli warmongers who want to drag the US into an idiotic war with Iran, to facilitate continuing oppression of the Palestinians by Israel? I am not so sure. And I am not sure the Russians saw delivery as a “great deterrent” either.
James,
Agreed, but doesn’t that same logic say that the delivery of the S-300s by Russia would be good for peace in the region?
WTF,
Russia went along with the latest round of sanctions against Iran because Russia believed that was the best way forward, and that it would help to maintain the unity of the P-5+1, in negotiations with Iran. I think Russia is completely sincere in its wish to achieve better relations between the US and Iran.
Russia is well aware of the power of Aipac and other elements of the ISRAEL LOBBY/WAR LOBBY in the US. This needs to be kept in mind.
WTF,
I agree totally that warmongers in Israel do not give a fig about international law. The same is not true of the US, however. And I see the greatest danger as an insane Israeli attack on Iran, that drags the US in. But I think Israel would be very reluctant to attack Iran while Hezbollah is strong in Lebanon. Which is the reason I see a strong Hezbollah as serving the interests of peace in the Middle East.
James Canning says:
August 31, 2011 at 1:28 pm
Do you think delivery of the S-300 systems to Iran would have helped improve US-Iran relations? It would certainly have made it more difficult for the Russians to make some of the deals they are trying to achieve, with the US.
I think there is no question about the sincerity of the Russian wish to improve US-Iran relations. There are questions, of course, as to the best way to achieve this.
James,
I am a touch more cynical than you. We agree that the chances of a US attack on Iran are low. However, you feel that it is because it would be illegal under international law. I believe that the war hawks in the US/Israel give two shits about international law, but won’t attack anytime soon because they are not in a political or financial position to withstand the aftermath (even from their myopic POV).
I believe that the Russians do not want all out war in the ME, but I am not at all convinced that they genuinely want the US and Iran to get along. What has Moscow done to ease tensions between the US and Iran, aside from placate Washington? Why did the Russians go along with the latest round of sanctions? The Russians know that the sanctions are a means to an end, and that end is not great bilateral relations between Iran and the US
The delivery of the S-300s would have been a great deterrent to a Western attack on Iran; it may not have made the US and Iran buddies, but nothing would in the short-term. Bottom-line, if Russia wants to improve relations between Iran and the US, then they need to convince the US to stop being duplicitous, and accept Tehran’s right to enrich Uranium.
Clint,
thanks for interesting piece by Yousaf Butt you linked (on antiwar.com), arguing that the sanctions were intended to fail. Certainly, the government of Israel conspires, literally, with certain American politicians in effort to damage Iran for reasons having nothing to do with Iran’s nuclear programme. This conspiracy is monitored by the FBI. So, it might be more accurate to say that dishonest, and delusional, American politicians are conspiring with Israel to deceive the American people, to set up yet another illegal war in the Middle East. And that rich and powerful Jews are helping the campaign to dupe the American people yet again, in the style of the campaign to set up the illegal invasion of Iraq.
Humanist,
What causes you to claim Rory Stewart is “not someone you can trust”? Can you name a British MP with a better understanding of Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan? Surely he is right to say the Nato intervention in Afghanistan needs to be brought to an end.
Humanist,
Let’s hope Maliki can stay the course and have all US troops out of Iraq by the end of the year. Most likely some “trainers” will remain, but if the great majority of the 50,000 US troops in Iraq, are out by the end of the year, it will be a good thing indeed.
WTF,
Do you think delivery of the S-300 systems to Iran would have helped improve US-Iran relations? It would certainly have made it more difficult for the Russians to make some of the deals they are trying to achieve, with the US.
I think there is no question about the sincerity of the Russian wish to improve US-Iran relations. There are questions, of course, as to the best way to achieve this.
Iraq: All US forces will leave by the end of the year
http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/196720.html
James Canning says:
August 31, 2011 at 12:47 pm
Russia does not want another war in the Middle East. And Russia has been trying to come up with a formula to enable an improvement in the relations between Iran and the US.
Fair enough, but then why not equip Iran with the S-300s to deter the war hawks in the West who would push for an attack (legal or otherwise)? It is nice to believe that Russia wants a warming of US/Iran relations, but their actions don’t seem to fully mesh with that concept.
BiBiJon,
I agree the Russian proposal for a staged reduction in sanctions would offer a means of reducing tension between the US and Iran, without aany “loss of face” on the part of the US. Israeli warmongers have been conspiring with several organizations in the US, or members of those organizations, in effort to dupe the American public by false intelligence regarding Iran’s nuclear programme. This conspiracy has been monitored by the FBI for several years now. It is interesting how news about this conspiracy is kept out of US newspapers, off network TV news, etc.
Photi,
The chances of US troops in Iraq being employed to invade Iran, are virtually zero. Foolish politicians in the US who have squandered trillions of dollars on an ill-cnceived military adventure, are trying to delay the day the great majority of Americans will comprehend the extent of the stupidity of American leaders. This is the reason the Obama administration continues to pressure al-Maliki in hopes of extending the presence of US troops in Iraq for a few more years.
Rd.,
Interesting story in AsiaTimes today that you linked. I am confident the Emir of Qatar urged Iran to return to its policy of seeking good relations with all of its neighbors, including the Gulf monarchies. This is just good sense.
WTF,
Any US attack on Iran would be illegal under international law, as things stand today. So chances of a US attack are very low. Israeli government is conspiring with Aipac and other groups and individuals, in effort to set up a war with Iran. Russia does not want another war in the Middle East. And Russia has been trying to come up with a formula to enable an improvement in the relations between Iran and the US.
fyi says:
August 31, 2011 at 11:15 am
Photi says: August 31, 2011 at 10:19 am
The thing is, independent Iran is necessary for the defense of Russia.
So in the event of teh war by the Axis Powers, Russians will almost certainly re-supply Iran; just like Roosevelt re-supplied UK in early years of WWII before entering that war.
I agree that with or without bases in Iraq, the West will stay ready to pounce if an opportunity presents itself within Iran (particularly after seeing the Libya model). I also see Russia’s stake in all of this, but given your statement above, I am curious how you interpret the Russians reneging on the S-300 deal.
It would seem that if Moscow truly wanted an independent Iran, a defensive system like the S-300 would make perfect sense to supply Tehran with, to deter an attack. It appears on its face though, that Russia is simply milking the confrontation between the West and Iran for all that it can, even if that risks war. At the onset of the latest UN sanctions, Russia was sending mixed signals, but appeared to be ready to continue with the sale of the S-300s (likely to extract some further concessions from Washington beyond what had been promised for supporting the sanctions in the first place).
Do you believe that Moscow feels that Washington isn’t in a position to attack Iran (hence no dire need for the S-300) or do you think that they would rather sell Iran offensive weapons during a war than defensive weapons to deter war?
Rd. says:
August 31, 2011 at 10:46 am
I believe Iran does not have (the once upon a time, long ago) unlimited resources of the US, nor a two-ocean-endowed invulnerability. This forces Iran to choose winners, shun dependencies, and liabilities.
As Afrasiabi points out, certain pieces are interchangeable. E.g. An Arab-assimilated-Iraq + Egypt-Iran-warming = Syria
Or KSA non interference in Lebanon can be matched by Iran also not interfering.
War is unthinkable for all concerned. The kind of reshuffling I see happening is a result of shifting realities. It is a natural readjustment. Funny/sad part is, the eventuality is inevitable whether as a result of some hard bargaining, or as a result of exhaustion from a region-wide war.
Photi says: August 31, 2011 at 10:19 am
No.
Axis Powers have their nuclear file on Iran and will wait for large disturbances in Iran to commence their war if and when the opportunity presents itself.
The thing is, independent Iran is necessary for the defense of Russia.
So in the event of teh war by the Axis Powers, Russians will almost certainly re-supply Iran; just like Roosevelt re-supplied UK in early years of WWII before entering that war.
Bombing campaigns against Iran will also almost certainly will culminate in the introduction of US ground troops into Iranian territory.
BiBiJon says:
“, the Qatari emir’s visit to Tehran may well have been to represent US wishes”
And According to Afrasiabi, iran makes a u turn on Syria??
http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MI01Ak01.html
that leaves us with;
fyi says:
Latest runmor out of Al Dayar news paper (Lebanon), after last Thursday trip of Emir of Qatar to Iran:
“I will tell you all that Iranians will carry out their promises to defend Syria from external threats.”
Given the pragmatic approach of IRI’s foreign policy, what do others see in the crystal ball? typical FP transactions?
Humour – The fate of Britannia
Over five thousand years ago Moses said to the children of Israel “Pick up your shovel, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the promised land.”
Nearly fifty years ago, Harold Wilson said, “Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, and light up a camel, this is the promised land”
Then Gordon Brown stole your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of camels, and mortgaged the promised land.
Now David Cameron has loaned my shovel to a third World country, (he hasn’t realised yet that WE are now a third World country thanks to all the billions of pounds, of our money, he has given in aid), raised my fuel bills, lent my money to a crowd of incompetent, greedy “Merchant bankers” and increased Vat to 20%.
I got so depressed last night I called the Samaritans they diverted my call to a call centre in Pakistan .
I told them I was suicidal: they got all excited and asked if I could drive a truck!
BibiJon or anyone,
Does a US retreat from Iraq present a ‘now or never’ scenario to those who want to invade Iran?
Photi says:
August 31, 2011 at 9:03 am
Couldn’t agree more! Although David Dayen of FireDogLake pours cold water on it thus:
“This really all depends on the meaning of the word “troops” to Maliki. He has been trying to change the terms, saying that troops will leave but “trainers,” who would be members of the US military, would be allowed to stay to assist Iraqi security forces. Maliki has even said in the past that he could bypass the Iraqi Parliament under such an arrangement, and permit trainers to stay. As noted above, there is a negotiating process underway between Iraq and the US on some manner of training.”
http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/08/30/maliki-us-troops-will-leave-iraq-in-december-what-about-trainers/
I see a lot of possible swaps and shifts going on in the region which nonetheless leave the strategic interests of various stake holders in place.
Bring Shiite majority ruled Iraq into the Arab fold
Return Syria to the Arab fold
Have less-than-zero problem with Turkey
Have more-than-zero problem with Russia
Warming Iran-Egypt relations
negotiate a hands-off settlement on Lebanon
etc. etc.
American posture in the region may or may not be in the mix. For all we know, the Qatari emir’s visit to Tehran may well have been to represent US wishes. If (and only if) everybody (US included) is happy with the new regional org chart, then I see the Russian step-by-step be the face-saving vehicle for US and Iran to start to withdraw their index fingers from each other’s eye.
BibiJon,
Regarding timely US pullout of Iraq, this sounds like good news, come what may.
On agony aunts, and cultural determinism
======================================
Should I sleep with my Iranian co-worker?
http://www.salon.com/life/since_you_asked/2011/08/30/zoroastrianism/index.html
Loved this part:
“We Americans have been indoctrinated our whole lives to believe that one is free to change at will and to cross cultural and racial boundaries.
But America is a strange place. And it is a new place. His [the Iranian] culture is very old. You and he are very different.”
I wish I were able to say in the same breath “we Americans” are free to … cross cultural and racial boundaries” AND ” His [Iranian] culture is very old. You and he are very different.”
Clint says:
August 31, 2011 at 7:06 am
Clint, the antiwar blog post illustrates what a big pile of sticks US Iran policy is.
S’mores anyone?
Meanwhile in the region
,http://wwwdotalsumariadottv/en/Iraq-News/1-68063-Maliki%3A-US-troops-will-leave-Iraq-on-time.html
kooshy,
on sanctions — not sure I posted this already on this blog but an excellent summary account of why the Iran sanctions (UN, US, EU etc.) have NOTHING to do with Iran’s nuclear program (see link below) — why couldn’t any investigative journalist have come up w/this?
The Iran sanctions would stay in place no matter if Iran dumped its centrifuges in the sea!
check –
http://original.antiwar.com/yousaf-butt/2011/08/25/iran-sanctions-built-to-fail/
kooshy says:
August 30, 2011 at 10:59 pm
Thanks for the link. To show my appreciation, here is link demolishing the indictment of four men linked to Hezbollah in the 2005 assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri made public by the Special Tribunal on Lebanon Aug. 17.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/08/30/the-hariri-assassination-2/
On our buddy Juan Cole, I could not get the orchestra metaphor out of my head. I think he is on clarinet …
Uber-Zionists on drums (of war)
neo-conservatives on violin (extol ‘muscular diplomacy’)
neo-liberals on french horn (humaniterain bombing)
pseudo-left on clarinet (generally anti-war except for any current war, generally anti-Israel but same hate list as Likud)
off topic, Happy Eid to any and all!
From that same nytimes article:
“But some American officials said that the group is now largely independent of Qaeda leaders in Pakistan, and that there is even evidence that various affiliated groups across Northern Africa might increasingly be acting in league with one another.
Gen. Carter F. Ham, the head of the military’s Africa Command, said in a telephone interview last week that the group that claimed responsibility for the recent attack in Nigeria, Boko Haram, has said publicly that it plans to tether itself more closely to Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and to the Shabab, the militant group operating in Somalia.
Recent American intelligence assessments have found that Boko Haram has trained with Qaeda-linked militants in camps in the deserts of Mali, and may seek to expand its campaign of violence beyond Nigeria.
More on Iran’s S-300′ lawsuit. It is filed in the international court of arbitration in paris.
http://presstv.com/detail/196651.html
The report also mentioned 65 S300 “units” that were to be delivered.
Pretty soon we may run short of finding people around the world to sanction, at one point we may even end up sanctioning people that one day potentially they might become official of a potential adversary country.
US Sanctions Syrian Foreign Minister, Others, for Supporting Crackdown
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/US-Sanctions-Syrian-Foreign-Minister-Others-for-Supporting-Crackdown-128709563.html
what do the Americans think, the Foreign Minster of Syria is suppose not to protect the government she is a senior member of, and she will be sanctioned if she doesn’t chose to defect to west.
But with all hearth the foreign ministers that surly deserve to be sanctioned, are the last four foreign ministers of US, for war crimes and crimes against humanity, one day that will come up hope fully.
Re. the topic of this post: AQ affiliates getting stronger
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/30/world/asia/30qaeda.html?ref=world&pagewanted=print
“Even with the network’s operatives in Pakistan under siege, Al Qaeda’s wings in Yemen and North Africa have had little difficulty continuing a wave of violence. The chaos and power vacuum in Yemen have allowed operatives there to gain control over large swaths of the country’s southern territories, and Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb has claimed responsibility for a suicide attack that killed 16 soldiers and two civilians on Friday at an Algerian military academy. The same day, a Nigerian terrorist group that has cultivated ties to Al Qaeda killed dozens of people when it blew up the United Nations headquarters in Nigeria’s capital, Abuja.
“For the past two years, the affiliates have been gaining in stature while core Al Qaeda has been declining,” said a senior American counterterrorism official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because intelligence assessments of Al Qaeda are classified. “Bin Laden’s death accelerated this trend, and Atiyah’s death is the icing on the cake.”
August 30, 2011
“Democracy Now?”
Meet Professor Juan Cole, Consultant to the CIA
by JOHN WALSH
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/08/30/meet-professor-juan-cole-consultant-to-the-cia/
Sakineh,
I don’t know enough about Rory Stewart. From little I know he is not a character you can trust. He is as I mentioned in my post, a conservative hegemonist. Yet in that video he shows his independence, courage (and integrity) to advocate the foolishness of antiquated colonial style wars in Afghanistan.
The US Palestinian Community Network has appealed to all Palestinian and Arab community associations, societies and committees, student organizations and friends of Palestinian people to reject Mahmoud Abbas’ statehood plan as a distraction that unjustifiably and irresponsibly endangers Palestinian rights and institutions.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/08/31/iof-%e2%80%98be-prepared-to-kill-palestinian-youth%e2%80%99/
Sakineh,
And yes, Obama would have done well to heed advice from Rory Stewart, rather than the cr*p advice he got from Hillary Clinton, Gen Petraeus and Robert Gates. Re: what to do in Afghanistan.
Sakineh,
Thanks for the link to Xinhua story on latest news about Iranian nuclear programme. It would be interesting to know what market potential exists, and the relative costs for Iran as compared to Russia or others in that market.
The nuclear dismarmaent conference certainly got little attention in the west.
James,
This shows that Iran is interested in exporting (getting in the exclusive club) the excess production of U19.75.
“Meanwhile, Abbasi said Monday that Iran has plans to export radio-medicine to the regional countries”
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-08/29/c_131082472.htm
Humanist,
Thanks for the link to Rory Stewart interview. He is an up coming (was invited to bilderburg) British politician and Afghanistan expert who trekked across the country alone. I remember seeing an interview with him before the surge. He said something along these lines: They [the administration] told me they wanted to drive a car off a cliff [the surge]. They asked if it was good idea to fasten the seat belts or leave them off.
I find that to be an apt analogy. He was totally against the surge then and now.
Jacob Heilbrunn comments on Richard Cohen’s comparison of US refusal to aid Jews in Holocaust to US intervention in Libya.
On a lighter note, but touching on important issues of tribal identity and race, is “Bury My Heart at Wounded Negro”:
http://takimag.com/article/bury_my_heart_at_wounded_negro#axzz1WYJdstiM
The authors note that “most Americans these days don’t know much of anything besides what they’re spoon-fed from the boob tube.” All too true.
Certainly, most Americans are not aware that “blacks” owned slaves, prior to the Civil War. As did “Indians”.
WTF,
So you are saying the Obama administration was duplicitous, and wanted sanctions for the sake of sanctions, even if this forced Iran to enrich U to 20%? Are you also saying, in effect, that Hillary Clinton’s object is to help Israel oppress the Palestinians, by trying to cut off Iranian assistance to Hamas and Hezbollah?
James Canning says:
August 30, 2011 at 5:29 pm
It does seem clear that Hillary Clinton would prefer to have Iran enriching U to 20%, with no direct “blame” attached to the Obama administration, than for the US to have accepted Iranian production of 3.5% LEU for the Beshehr reactors (down the road).
Agreed, when faced with those two options. However, I believe that the Administration was going to push forward with their new round of sanctions regardless of any offer from Tehran. Given past precedent, I can easily see that on the day the Tehran Declaration was announced, Tehran could have announced that it was willing to ship all of its stockpile of 3.5% LEU to France to hold for 24 months in good faith, and Hillary would have still responded the same (smirk and all).
Those sanctions were coming no matter what. My belief is that Tehran outmaneuvered Washington by making the eleventh hour compromise offer on the swap deal, knowing that Washington would refuse. By refusing a reasonable offer to exchange LEU for fuel for the Tehran Reactor, the Obama Administration gave Tehran the political cover needed to start producing 20% LEU, while spitting in Turkey and Brazil’s face in the process. That is as much as Tehran could hope for in that battle, given that the sanctions were already coming with support from Russia and China.
So, basically, I don’t think that the Administration even made the “choice” between a compromise deal or Iran enriching to 20%. They were set on sanctions, and Tehran used that to extract some diplomatic and political gains.
David Cronin comments on a new book about the French pro-Israel lobby:
http://electronicintifada.net/blog/david/influence-french-pro-israel-lobby-examined-new-book
Fara,
Thanks for the link. And bravo, Glenn Greenwald. I would add that Dick Cheney is presumably trying to smooth the course for other war criminals to set up an illegal war with Iran, and escape prosecution.
Dick Cheney and his gang did more damage to the US than Osama bin Laden.
WTF,
Interesting comments on the reasons Obama bungled the negotiations with Iran. It does seem clear that Hillary Clinton would prefer to have Iran enriching U to 20%, with no direct “blame” attached to the Obama administration, than for the US to have accepted Iranian production of 3.5% LEU for the Beshehr reactors (down the road). I agree with you that Aipac etc goes well beyond being a mere lobby. And that the situation is dangerous.
Off topic, but since there were some mentions of Dick Cheny here;
“As former Vice President Dick Cheney publishes his long-awaited memoir, we speak to Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell. “This is a book written out of fear, fear that one day someone will ‘Pinochet’ Dick Cheney,” says Wilkerson, alluding to the former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet, who was arrested for war crimes. Wilkerson also calls for George W. Bush and Cheney to be held accountable for their crimes in office. “I’d be willing to testify, and I’d be willing to take any punishment I’m due,” Wilkerson said. We also speak to Salon.com political and legal blogger Glenn Greenwald about his recent article on Cheney, “The Fruits of Elite Immunity.” “Dick Cheney goes around the country profiting off of this sleazy, sensationalistic, self-serving book, basically profiting from his crimes, and at the same time normalizing the idea that these kind of policies…are perfectly legitimate choices to make. And I think that’s the really damaging legacy from all of this,” says Greenwald.”
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/8/30/ex_bush_official_col_lawrence_wilkerson
Head of Iran’s Atomic Energy Organization (IAEO) Fereydoun Abbasi says given the progress of Tehran’s nuclear program, the Islamic Republic will no longer consider a fuel swap deal.
“We will no longer negotiate the issue of a production freeze and swapping fuel,” said Abbasi in an interview with IRNA on Monday.
“We are at a stage of progress that they [world powers] should negotiate with us to provide other [countries] with their required fuel,” he added.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/196467.html
Rehmat: Could you please source that report (denial claim).
Watch interesting interview of Matt Lauer with Dick Cheney on his recent book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK9R9JHk9eI
Cheney openly justifies torture of non-Americans to save American lives (as if non-Americans don’t count). This, in my view, is fully reminiscent of Nazi ‘Deutschland ist uber Alles”, European racial arrogance, Japanese or Jewish notion of being chosen people, Arabs believing they are above Ajams (non-Arabs) and countless similar expressions all stemming from the primitive and divisive traits of tribalism or nationalism.
According an old form of Sufism, first we are like low form of self-absorbed animals having sympathy only for ourselves and for our own close families. At this stage we are valueless and potentially harmful to others. Yet we all have the ability to become better and better. In our early evolving our empathetic feelings will extend towards all the people we know in our own tribe and then towards the ones we don’t know…still evolving further we will extend our sympathy towards all others ending up with sensation feeling we are them, they are us.
Rumi (a Sufi) believed such beautiful evolution (from rocks, to plant, to animals, to humans and to ultra humans) can reach its peak when ‘we can become so advanced no one at present can imagine that’.
In my view, in such an idealistic scale of perfection Cheney is just a notch above the self-absorbed animality.
Rehmat says:
August 30, 2011 at 4:34 pm
WTF – So you believe that US foreign policy is not dictated by the Jewish Lobby on behalf of the Zionist entity?
People like you prove Professor Daniel Bar-Tal (Tel Aviv University) 2010 study. The good-old professor came to the conclusion that a great majority of Israeli Jews prefer to live in their self-denial. He said they’re not interested to know the facts about the Israel-Palestine conflict. They’re brainwashed with Zionist narrative of the conflict and hatred toward Arabs and Muslims from an early age….
Rehmat,
You have misread my statement. I absolutely believe that the Israel Lobby holds major sway in American foreign policy. I, in fact, was taking it a step further and claiming that (IMO) the term “Lobby” is too soft of a term for them considering their extreme tactics that go well beyond financing political campaigns.
As for your comment about me being proof of Israeli Jews living in self-denial, while it was a nice plug for your article, it has no relevance to my situation. I am neither Israeli nor Jewish, and I have been aware since my childhood of the facts of the IP conflict and the detrimental effect that political Zionism has had on the region and the world.
WTF – So you believe that US foreign policy is not dictated by the Jewish Lobby on behalf of the Zionist entity?
People like you prove Professor Daniel Bar-Tal (Tel Aviv University) 2010 study. The good-old professor came to the conclusion that a great majority of Israeli Jews prefer to live in their self-denial. He said they’re not interested to know the facts about the Israel-Palestine conflict. They’re brainwashed with Zionist narrative of the conflict and hatred toward Arabs and Muslims from an early age….
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/05/24/study-israelis-prefer-to-live-in-self-denial/
WTF – By Israeli law, every Israeli Jewish citizen is a combatant at age 18. Every boy and girl must joined military training at age 16. On completion of their training – the male has to serve two years and female 18 months in the Israel Occupation Force (IOF). After that some of them become part of IOF and the remaining joins the ‘Reserve Force’.
Israeli army arms Jewish settlers in preparation for Palestinian unrest
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/8731272/Israeli-army-arms-Jewish-settlers-in-preparation-for-Palestinian-unrest.html
James Canning says:
August 30, 2011 at 2:15 pm
WTF,
Is it fair to say you think the Obama administration failed to do what was in the best interests of the American people, and was afraid to accept the offer of Brazil and Turkey to mediate the nuclear dispute? Due to enormous power of the ISRAEL LOBBY?
Stated another way, is it fair to say you believe Obama did not have the political courage to confront Aipac et al. and to seek mediatation from Turkey and Brazil, even though that course was the best one for the people of the US?
I absolutely believe that the Obama Administration’s Iran policy is detrimental to not only the American People, but to the people of all nations. Qualified as my opinion, I don’t believe that the Israeli influence on the American Government should even be described as lobbying. Therefore, I wouldn’t say that Obama lacked the “political” courage, as I personally believe that more than his political future would be on the line if he actually stood up to Israel in a truly significant way.
Every objective, informed person can tell that the Israel “Lobby” wields major influence in consecutive American governments, but when you start to dig deeper into the depth of that influence, and the means used to exert that influence, it honestly starts to get scary.
WTF,
Stated another way, is it fair to say you believe Obama did not have the political courage to confront Aipac et al. and to seek mediatation from Turkey and Brazil, even though that course was the best one for the people of the US?
WTF,
Is it fair to say you think the Obama administration failed to do what was in the best interests of the American people, and was afraid to accept the offer of Brazil and Turkey to mediate the nuclear dispute? Due to enormous power of the ISRAEL LOBBY?
James,
Sorry, forgot to erase or put quotation marks around your quoted comment (the first paragraph of my last comment.
James Canning says:
August 30, 2011 at 1:18 pm
WTF,
I am not sure whether you think that Hillary Clinton felt she did not need to block the Iranian IAEA application to re-fuel the Tehran reactor? It seems to me she did not want to allow the potential political damage to Democrats in the US Congress, that might well flow from any deal allowing Iran to continue to produce LEU, and that she was willing, in effect, to force Iran to enrich to 20% rather than suffer the political damage the ISRAEL LOBBY would inflict as punishment.
I do not think that the Obama Administration, particularly Clinton, had any desire to pump their brakes in their pursuit of further sanctions against Tehran. For that matter, there were/are virtually no Congressional Democrats pushing for compromise either. Had the Administration agreed to the proposal put forth by Iran, Turkey and Brazil, they would have taken flak from virtually the entire Congress (Democrats included).
In my opinion, the Obama Administration was caught off guard by the Tehran Declaration and was forced to put the best face they could on their refusal of a compromise deal on a fuel swap. Very similar to the situation they found themselves in earlier this year when they were alone in vetoing a UN Resolution condemning West Bank settlements, that was virtually identical to their stated position.
Pirouz says:
August 30, 2011 at 7:56 am
I think you are doing a great disservice to Sheehan and code pink in general by comparing them to Ebadi. Say what you will about Sheehan, but she clearly isn’t receiving marching orders from Iran or Cuba. Ebadi is in the US spearheading Aipac’s sanctions campaign against Iran. I can’t be the only one stunned by how quickly she jumped on top of Nokia. Putting aside the absurd premise of the campaign for a second, since when do activist lawyers have detailed information about the Iran’s telephony infrastructure? She should be up front about where she is receiving her information from.
I’d would say Ebadi is a mix between Lynne Stewart and Adam Ghedan.
WTF,
Read the link to Philip Giraldi’s comments about how a number of his wife’s friends in Virginia suburbs of Washington, who supported John McCain eight years ago, are now supporting Ron Paul. I linked it a while back.
The same hubris and delusion that created the idiotic American wars in the Middle East also created the near-catastrophe with the economy in 2008. And, of course, rich and powerful Jews played key roles in both disasters for the American people.
WTF,
Yes, the spectacle of Eric Cantor openly proclaiming his wish to subvert the foreign policy of the American president, regarding Israel/Palestine. And knowing he could do it, and suffer no retribution. Thanks to stooges of Israeli government that set the news agenda for the American people (in the Washington Post, New York Times, and Wall Street Journal).
Wall Streeters manipulate the ignorant evangelical Christians who compose such a large part of today’s Republican party. They play up “Islamophobia” to benefit Israel, and themselves of course.
James,
It’s sad how many Americans choose to keep their eyes wide shut regarding our “special” relationship with Israel. Recall last year when Eric Cantor assured Netanyahu that the Congressional Republicans would serve as a check on the Obama Administration (implying on foreign policy). Many conservatives that I know brushed it off at the time, taking it as just another symptom of the hyper-partisan rhetoric in Washington (particularly around the election).
I had to point out to them how shocking it was, that the presumptive Majority Leader of the House was pledging his allegiance to the leader of another country. And this was not only done behind closed doors, Cantor announced this proudly via statement after his meeting with Netanyahu. Not to mention the absurdity of the idea that Obama needs to be checked on his anti-Israel policy.
WTF,
I am not sure whether you think that Hillary Clinton felt she did not need to block the Iranian IAEA application to re-fuel the Tehran reactor? It seems to me she did not want to allow the potential political damage to Democrats in the US Congress, that might well flow from any deal allowing Iran to continue to produce LEU, and that she was willing, in effect, to force Iran to enrich to 20% rather than suffer the political damage the ISRAEL LOBBY would inflict as punishment.
WTF,
“The [FBI] recorded [a] telephone conversation between an Israeli intelligence officer and Rep. Jane Harman in A[pril 2009, in which she agreed to intervene on behalf of accused AIPAC spies Steve Rosen and Keith Weissman in exchange for chairmanship of the House Intelligence Committee.” (From Philip Giraldi’s “Deep Background” column in the Sept. 2011 American Conservative magazine)
WTF,
And didn’t 330 US Congressmen attend the recent Aipac annual convention in Washington? Truly grotesque.
WTF,
Yes, absolutely, the control of the US Congress enjoyed by Aipac crosses party lines.
Scott McConnell asked a good question, rhetorically: “What does one want to do when contemplating members of the U. S. Congress jumping up and down before Netanyahu as if they were attendees as a 1950s Soviet Party Congress? Scream out loud, of course.”
Kathleen,
Condoleezza Rice and Stephen Hadley were whores to power and knowingly, in appears, allowed Dick Cheney to use false intelligence to set up the invasion of Iraq. And they are partners in a San Francisco firm offering advice etc on international relations. George W Bush was Cheney’s dupe and stooge.
CIA knew the Niger documents were forgeries years before G W Bush used that “intelligence” in 2003 State of the Union address (to deceive the American public).
To all my colleagues read this about Google search
Iranian Man-in-the-Middle Attack Against Google Demonstrates Dangerous Weakness of Certificate Authorities
Fiorangela says: August 30, 2011 at 8:26 am
There are no “rag tag” locals here; they have killed 500 security personnel so far.
Make these numbers grow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsbX0kKdnG4
Important.
Watch and listen to Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame stick Cheney’s nose into his own crap.
When will Cheney and his warmongering thugs be held accountable
http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/29/7517487-wilson-and-plame-talk-cheney-book?threadId=3210691&commentId=57540084#c57540084
Tenet to Stephen Hadley and Condi “mushroom cloud” Rice “do not use this Niger information, we do not believe it”
Plame “Cheney shows nothing but contempt”
Important.
Watch and listen to Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame stick Cheney’s nose into his own crap.
When will Cheney and his warmongering thugs be held accountable
http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/29/7517487-wilson-and-plame-talk-cheney-book?threadId=3210691&commentId=57540084#c57540084
Former CNN Talk-show host Glenn Beck is a welknown Muslim-basher. In 2008, he was selected a one the top dozen American Islamophobes by the FAIR magazine. One of his famous prophecy was: “In 10 years, Muslims and Arabs will be looking through a razor wire fence at the West”.
Glenn Beck has just returned from Israel where he addressed several rallies in Jerusalem near both Jewish and Christian Holy sites professing his undying support for the Zionist entity. He called the 300,000 Israeli Jews protesting against Israeli government “communists” – adding they should be alert not to let “any kind of Islamist movement that is joining them”.
Glenn Beck became an instant hero among the Zionist Jews and Christians. However, on his return, the bigmouth could not control himself and made the following ‘anti-Semitic’ statement……..
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/glenn-beck-and-his-bigot-critic/
Ivan Eland on Libya:
http://original.antiwar.com/eland/2011/08/23/natos-triumph-in-libya/
Eland’s main point:
“the Libyan conflict demonstrates that the U.S. is perfecting the technique of using ragtag local ground forces to fix enemy regime forces in place so that its air power can pummel them into sawdust.”
Hillary Clinton is aware that the uprising in Syria is being driven by predominantly “ragtag local” — and poor, Syrians (and provocateurs); she has observed that there is little buy-in to the rebellion on the part of Syria’s middle-class and upper class. Therefore, the goal of sanctions on Syria is to discomfort the comfortable, to induce THEM to blame economic harms that ensue, on Syria’s government, and join the rebellion.
The 1-2-3 punch of US economic hitmen.
masoud says:
August 30, 2011 at 4:23 am
Ebadi reminds me of Cindy Sheehan.
Sheehan had something of a following during the Bush years. That is, until she started touring countries like Cuba and Venezuela, giving talks to crowds hostile to the United States. After doing so, she lost all of her mainstream support.
Same with Ebadi. All she does is tour Europe and the US, giving talks to crowds hostile to Iran. And she wonders why young men in the old country deface her old dwelling with abusive graffiti.
It seems Ms. Ebadi isn’t really a fan of the Arab spring
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-kettmann/iranian-nobel-peace-prize_b_940180.html?ref=iran
“I think it is too early to use this term ‘Arab Spring,’ because I don’t think it’s enough to topple a dictator,”
I think she’s a clown.
James Canning says:
August 29, 2011 at 7:26 pm
“I think Hillary Clinton’s instincts and first loyalties go toward other Democrats in the US Congress, and I sadly think she puts those interests ahead of the interests of the American people. Which is why she has her current job.”
I tend to agree with this on domestic issues, however in the context of Iran, what is the difference between the two parties position? The million dollar question is, why is the agenda of the US congress not to serve the best interest of the American people? Watching the pathetic groveling that Congress (both parties) gave Bibi Netanyahu, I think is solid proof that the Zionist stranglehold of the US government crosses party lines.
Unknown Unknowns says:
August 29, 2011 at 7:18 pm
“thanks to Neo-con policies instituted by George the Younger, and continued under the reign of Barry White.”
My friend, we are on the same page. Barack Obama talked a good one in his stump speech, but all hope went out the window once we got a chance to see his policies in action. And the media in this country is such garbage that Obama is virtually never called on that. Jon Stewart does (mildly) every now and then, but most people in this country hear only partisan rhetoric and no criticism with any real substance, so they don’t understand how ridiculous American leaders look to the rest of the world.
Some of the best criticism that I have heard on commercial TV of US foreign policy, and this President in particular, is in this Lupe Fiasco music video. It was actually the number 1 video on MTV for a short stretch. Ironic that a black rapper from Chicago is the only one with the balls to call this President on his bullshit.
Lupe Fiasco – The Words I Never Said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22l1sf5JZD0&ob=av2e
James Canning says:
August 29, 2011 at 7:11 pm
James,
I am not convinced that the Obama administration planned to have to derail a serious LEU swap deal, brokered by US allies nonetheless. However, regardless of the reasons that the administration took the stance that they did, it was extremely revealing to any objective observer that the US has ulterior motives and in no way wants to ease the tensions or potentially resolve the nuclear “impasse”.
Clinton spoke volumes when she smirked and announced that new sanctions were the administration’s answer to the bold compromise put forth in the Tehran Declaration. I have actually played that clip, in context, a few times to successfully convince skeptical peers of the Obama administration’s obvious hidden agenda (which doesn’t include a reasonable compromise).
Do I personally believe that the Israel lobby has a significant role in shaping the Obama (or any recent) administration’s foreign policy…Absolutely. It’s difficult to guess how that role applies to any individual decision made in Washington.
uskowi on iran
David said…
Israel and the USA are Iran’s biggest enemies.
They are desperate to destroy Iran similar to how they destroyed Iraq.
CIA and Mosad are using psychological operation through national endowment for democracy (NED) to kneel any country who challenges The Israel and USA’s hegemony.
They are using the entire west’s media as well as the VOA, BBC Persian, radio Farda and radio Israel to brainwash the Iranian people and the international public opinion.
Their policy is based on three principals:
1) Divide
2) Destabilise
3) Conquer
First policy is to divide the people.
Once the people of a country are divided, then they try to destabilise its government.
As soon as the government is destabilised, they pounce and conquer.
This is what the USA and Israel tried to do to Iran back in June 2009 and failed miserably.
Some Iranians are so stupid that they think by collaborating with the enemy (Israel, USA), they improve the chances of Iran becoming a more prosperous country, little do they know that this will lead to Iran being destabilised, divided and destroyed.
Iranians are seeing with their naked eyes what the “USA and Israel” have done to Iraq but sadly, they are not learning a lesson from it.
I think Iran’s crime is its independence and Iranians must be proud of their government that does not bow to hegemonic powers.
August 28, 2011 9:17 PM uskowi on iran
Irshad says: August 29, 2011 at 8:04 pm
Yes, Irshad; Iranians stayed out of the Chechen War for there was nothing in it for them; they depended on Russia for many many things.
Principally also, Chechens, from top to bottom, were fools. They speak Russian flawlessly and can participate in the national life of teh Russian Federation. But all of that apparently was not enough for them; pursuing a fantasy that Russians were finally provoked enought to ruthlessly smash.
And who would want to be on the side of people who had declared war on children (in Beslan).
James Canning says: August 29, 2011 at 5:03 pm
I really do not care about the internal arrangements inside the so-called Azerbaijan Republic.
I object to the ramifications of their fake national identity to the security of Iran.
[Mr. Ahmadinejad calls Israel a fake state - Azerbaijan is even more so than Israel.]
Iran should have declined to recognize that state with that name – Greece forced the name “The Former Republic of Macedonia” when that republic left Yugoslavia so as to minimize any claims to the Greek province of MAcedonia.
I think Iranians have historically behaved too genrously and grandly when it came to their neighbourly relations.
I think there is no reason for Azeri Republic to exist; it makes as much sense for Aran & Naxchevan to be an independent state as Pennsylvania.
On August 26, 2011, millions of people hit the streets in over 40 countries to show their solidarity with the oppressed Palestinian people. This event has been repeated every year since 1981 when the Leader of Islamic Revolution, Imam Khomeini, proclaimed the the last Friday of Muslim month of fasting as ‘International Al-Quds Day’. His vision of Palestine was an independent Palestinian State covering whole Palestine – from the Nile to the Forat River.
In Brazil, 150 elite, academic and citizen issued a statement asking their government to annul all contracts with the Zionist regime, expel all Israeli companies from Brazil and downgrade its relations with the Zionist regime.
As usual, the speeches by Iran’s President Dr. Ahmadinejad and Hizbullah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, delivered on Al-Quds Day became the subjects of distortion and fear-mongering by the Zionist-controlled mainstream media which is busy cherning laughable lies about Libyan leader Qaddafi each day. Yesterday’s top jokes were; Qaddafi’s little adopted daughter declared killed as result of US bombing in 1988 – is alive and a top medical doctor in Tripoli! The rebels also found several pictures of AIPAC’s Black darling Condileeza Rice in Qaddafi’s room!
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/ahmadinejad-and-nasrallah-address-al-quds-rallies/
kooshy says:
August 29, 2011 at 2:46 pm
So a group of “dumb” Americans trekked “accidentaly” in to Iran – surely this should be a warning to all Americans travelling to Muslim countries to avoid sensitive areas?
Hell No!:
‘Now Pakistan and America have some problems. So they’re taking it out on me’
Tensions between Pakistan and the US often made life tricky for Matthew Barrett, a young man from Alabama living in Islamabad, but when he was arrested in May, things went from bad to worse, as he has revealed in a letter smuggled from his jail cell
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/29/pakistan-us-matthew-barrett
When will Americans realise that they cant go round everywhere and anywhere in the world – even near key sensitive areas of foriegn countries just cos they hold an American passport?
James Canning says:
August 29, 2011 at 1:36 pm
James I strongly reccomend you red “After the Empire – The Breakdown of the American Order” by Emmanuel Todd. He covers the 1990s very well from a staregic POV. He makes it clear that it “was” official US policy to see the disintergration of the Russian Federation – as Russia is the “only” country on the planet that can wipe the US out of existence.
This did not sit well with Washington – hence the above policy was followed. Chechnya was the stepping stone to carry out the break up of the country as per ther plan that was carried out to break Yugoslavia up. Except, this time the Russians still had some sane policy makers who could see the American plan and smashed the Chechens to pieces as a warning to Washington and to local ethnic groups – the breakup of the Russian Federation will be met with a iron fist zero-tolerance policy.
I strongly suspect that Turkey and Saudi Arabia played a key part in this “game” of Uncle Sams in Russias backyard. She was very fortunate that Iran kept out of it and hence helping the Russians. They should be reminded of this over and over again. In the same way they should be reminded that Russia would not have much of a nuclear industry in the 1990s if Iran did not sign the Busher deal which kept 20,000+ scientists, engineers and technicians with jobs.
Russia owes a great deal to the Iranians – its time the Iranians start demanding some payback now either, ignoring sanctions and dealing with Iran as a normal country or supplying advanced weapons or finishing Busehr.
Other sites covering the Islamophobia report
Fear, Incorporated: Who’s paying for all that Islamophobic paranoia?
Posted By Stephen M. Walt Friday, August 26, 2011
link to walt.foreignpolicy.com
link to thinkprogress.org
link to presstv.ir
link to huffingtonpost.com
Meet An Islamophobia Network Funder: Richard Scaife
link to thinkprogress.org
Unknown Unknowns,
I think Hillary Clinton’s instincts and first loyalties go toward other Democrats in the US Congress, and I sadly think she puts those interests ahead of the interests of the American people. Which is why she has her current job.
Those interested in John McCain’s efforts to facilitate American arms sales to Gaddafi, and apparent hopes of bringing Libya into US operational sphere, should read this story:
http://electronicintifada.net/blog/ali-abunimah/did-wikileaks-just-reveal-us-blueprint-libya
General Abubaker Younes, second in command at the Libyan defence ministry, opposed cooperation because he wanted US occupational forces out of Iraq.
WTF:
Billary is indeed Hillarious – if only she and other Israel-right-or-wrong morons could see what a laughing stock they are in the third (real) world. America has lost all credibility among all third world elites who have not lost their sense of identity to the West, thanks to Neo-con policies instituted by George the Younger, and continued under the reign of Barry White.
WTF,
Do you think Hillary Clinton f*cked up the Iranian IAEA application, expecting that Iran would proceed to enrich U to 20%? Or, was she just a willing stooge of the ISRAEL LOBBY, and willing to take that risk rather than subject herself to political punishment from Aipac, Winep, etc.?
Those who wonder why the US Congress facilitates activities of Israeli crime bosses should read Ali Abunimah’s “Special treatment gives Israeli mobsters free access to US soil: Wikileaks”.
http://electronicintifada.net/blog/ali-abunimah/special-treatment-gives-israeli-mobsters-free-access-us-soil-wikileaks
James,
I agree that the US stonewalling of a swap deal was stupid, however I would add that I don’t believe that US officials were ignorant. The handling of the Tehran Declaration by the State Dept was disingenuous at best.
And look where it got them – now, according to his statement from Sunday, Abbasi says that Iran has enough 20% LEU to produce its own fuel for the Tehran Research Reactor and that no future swap deals will be entertained, adding that Iran would only accept assistance on Iranian soil.
Well played Mrs. Clinton!
“Israel wages war on Iranian scientists” by Mahan Abedin (Aug. 27th AsiaTimes):
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MH27Ak04.html
fyi,
What specifically do you find objectionable about the policies of Azerbaijan? The New York Times had a piece Aug. 10th on the building boom that is displacing middle class families. And a new Bentley dealership has opened. Etc. GDP trebled to $52 billion over past ten years.
WTF,
Yes, a good report on Abbasi’s statement of where things stand now, regarding Iran’s nuclear programme. And we should always keep in mind the stupidity of the US in blocking Iran’s IAEA app;lication to re-fuel the Tehran reactor. Stupidity caused by the ISRAEL LOBBY, of course.
Mr. Abbasi, Iran’s Nuclear Chief, seems to agree with FYI as to the Russian proposal’s likelihood of success.
“Whatever proposal which would weaken our (nuclear) rights would not be accepted … whether step-by-step or whatever else,” said Abbasi, who is also Iranian vice-president.
No short-term hope in nuclear talks, says Iran’s atomic chief
http://en.trend.az/regions/iran/1924393.html
Iran ‘discreetly aided Libyan rebels’
Iran “discreetly” provided humanitarian aid to Libyan rebels before the fall of Tripoli, Jam-e-Jam newspaper quoted Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi on Sunday as saying.
“We were in touch with many of the rebel groups in Libya before the fall of (Moamer) Kadhafi, and discreetly dispatched three or four food and medical consignments to Benghazi,” Salehi told the daily.
“The head of the National Transitional Council (NTC), Mustafa Abdel Jalil, sent a letter of thanks to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for having been on their side and helping,” he added.
Since the Libyan uprising erupted in mid-February, Iran has adopted a dual approach — criticising the Kadhafi regime for its violent assaults on the rebels while at the same time condemning NATO’s military intervention.
On Tuesday, Iran “congratulated the Muslim people of Libya” after rebels overran the capital Tripoli, but it has so far distanced itself from officially recognising the NTC.
http://news.yahoo.com/iran-discreetly-aided-libyan-rebels-132112373.html
Off topic:
In the following video we see how a conservative (hegemonist) draws a cynical picture of war in Afghanistan.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/rory_stewart_time_to_end_the_war_in_afghanistan.html
Another validation of the folly of wars (in the age that all confrontations are resolvable through dialogue and/or intelligent decisions), folly of outdated hegemonies (in the age of TV, Internet etc) and lunacy of those powerful entities (with antiquated deranged mentalities) who pull the strings.
Moshe Safdi in his recent interview with Charlie Rose said there are [only] 15 of them in Israel. Really? If Safdi is right then could the Big Revolt start from the most unexpected place…ie Israel? That could be a grand feat benefitting all humanity. Regardless if there is no Big Revolt then, sarcastically or seriously,, we must be heading towards a Big Doom when greed and psychopathy of a just a few annihilates all life forms on earth.
Many had guessed the HIDDEN segment of the Club of Rome had about 200 members, 15 is way less than 200! The worry is, if historic facts are extrapolated, soon 15 could shrink to just a few!
For another example how a few could incite big waves of hate and violence that could spread from US to the world read this:
,http://www.presstv.com/usdetail/196251.html
Hopefully, since the collective wisdom of humanity is way grander than the ‘genius’ of just a few crazed characters the inevitable Big Revolt will happen way before the times of the Doom.
kooshy says: August 29, 2011 at 2:46 pm
3 American Jews are arrested by Iranians, according to Iranians for illegally entering Iran.
I almost certain that they had been duped by their Israeli Intelligence agents.
Nevertheless, they have broken the law and have also created an international incident.
They are not pawns; they made decision that has ill-served them.
[A few years ago, Iranians arrested a yacht entering Iranian territorial waters and after interrogating the European sailors on it, they let them go.]
For those that didn’t catch it, Ron Paul on Fox News Sunday yesterday. At least they gave him a platform to speak, however the panel didn’t even mention Paul afterwards (abnormal for the show’s format) except for Steve Hayes saying that Paul didn’t have a clue what he was talking about in regards to Al Qaida in Libya.
Also, since Ron Paul finished in third, ahead of Michelle Bachmann, in the latest Gallup poll, the Fox panel has now declared that the Republican primary is a two way race between Perry and Romney. Though I am apprehensive of some of Ron Paul’s domestic policies, it is hard not to love him based solely on his foreign policy and the way that he has the entire Establishment sweating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b5fj0eR3sg
Iran Hikers: U.S. Government Pawns
Shirin Sadeghi.
Host, New America Now; former producer, the BBC and Al Jazeera
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shirin-sadeghi/iran-hikers-us-government_b_938119.html
Kathleen,
Thanks for that link to Stephen Walt’s piece, on who is paying for the programme of “Islamophobia” that is being conducted in the US.
Kathleen,
Philip Giraldi says that the Israeli embassies in Washington and New York arrange for stories to be planted in US newspapers, and for stooges of the Israel lobby to gain preference in power positions in the US Congress. Etc. Etc. The Israeli effort is coordinated with some delusion “right-wing” Republican groups. Also called faux-conservative Republicans.
fyi,
There is no doubting that US/UK/Germany et al. favor territorial integrity of Russian Federation (and of China).
There are a number of individual Saudis who are religious fanatics and who try to support Muslim secessionists. Provided they are Sunni, generally speaking.
Off topic this thread, but I recommend “Whither Ron Paul” by Philip Giraldi (on growing awareness of American public of ruinously expensive stupidity of US Middle East policy).
http://www.amconmag.com/blog/
Humor/Joke
An Iranian walks into a bar in America late one night.
An American guy takes the stool beside him.
‘Are you one of those ‘ians’?’ asks the American, with a contemptuous smile.
The astonished Iranian asks, ‘What do you mean?’
‘No difference, Arabian, Iranian, Indian, all the same,’ says the American in a humiliating tone, laughing out loud.
The Iranian asks instead, ‘And are you one of those ‘keys’?’. ‘What would that mean? The American asked!
The Iranian replied:
‘No difference, donkey, Yankee, monkey, all the same
James Canning says: August 29, 2011 at 1:08 pm
US cannot disintegrate the Russian Federation at acceptable costs.
Yet, the insurgency in southern Russia, funded by Saudi Arabia and a number of other states, as well as the refuge given by Turkey to the Chechens, makes one wonder if it had been part of an Axis Powers campaign against Russia.
Pirouz,
British experts on the Middle East insisted that as soon as Saddam Hussein was overthrown, an Iraqi needed to be put forward to be seen by the people as in charge of the transition to democracy. Idiots (to be kind) in the G W Bush administration ignored this advice and created the stupendously foolish regime presided over by L. Paul (“Jerry”) Bremer III. This is what set up the catastrophe.
And yes, let us hope nothing nearly so stupid is repeated in Libya.
fyi,
I of course was opposed to the use of western military power to overthrow the government of Libya. But we can hope civil war is avoided or at least kept to a minimum of isolated violence.
I see no comparison to what happened in Yugoslavia and the illegal invasion of Iraq (and subsequent idiotic disbanding of Iraqi army and security services). You argue that the US was determined to cause the disintegration of the country, to eliminate a potential rival power. But this cannot make sense when US policy was to support the territorial intergrity of the Russian Federation.
fyi & Rehmat,
Muslim growth rate at 30% 1991-2001 was 50% higher than 20% growth rate of Hindu population (in India). Does this fact play a role?
Rehmat says: August 29, 2011 at 12:25 pm
Very many Hindus ( > 80% in my opinion) are deeply prejudiced about Islam.
The sad part of it is that includes the so-called educated, modern, and international Hinuds!
And the strategic community in India is just in awe of Israel.
Meet Hindu extremist Ron Banerjee, director of Canadian Hindu Advocacy. He believes that Hindu community (400,000) is the “most victimized in Canada”. There are over 1,000 Hindu temples in Canada, the largest one, Toronto’s Shri Swamynarayan Mandir which was built at the cost of $40 million.
Ron Banerjee’s associates include Jewish Defence League (classified as a terrorist group by FBI), Christian Heritage Party (a Zionist Christian group for Israel) and Canadian Muslim Congress, whose founder Tarek Fateh, along with Canadian Prime Minister stephen Harper is listed on Israel Hasbara Committee as ‘Author’.
In January Banerjee attended JDL’s Toronto rally in support of pro-Israel English Defence League whose leader Tommy Robinson said in May 2011:“The English Defence League was formed two years ago. One of the fundamental beliefs that this movement was built on was its support for Israel’s right to defend itself. In our first demonstrations, we went to Birmingham, and we flew the flag of Israel, the Star of David. In the first public speech I ever gave, I wore the Star of David in Leeds. The reason for this is because Israel is a shining star of democracy. If Israel falls, we all fall. This is what our movement has been built on for two years.”
Banerjee’s other credentials include his support for Muslim hating Dutch MP Geert Wilders during a rally in Toronto last year – and his glowing tribute to separatist Parti Québécois for championing the banning of kirpans ( a religious symbol of Sikh community) from the Quebec National Assembly.
Banerjee claims that Muslims (980,000) community in Canada is trying to ‘Islamize’ the country as they’re doing in India (with Muslim population over 150 million). He also believes:“In its entire history, Islam, the Islamic civilization has invented and contributed less to human advancement than a pack of donkeys”. That shows you, like Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, Banerjee also gets his inspiration from Islamophobes like Robert Spencer and Daniel Pipes.
Currently, Banerjee is running a Zionist crusade against Valley Park Middle School in Flemingdon Park (Toronto) for allowing its 80% Muslim students to perform Friday prayer in school cafeteria after lunch break.
“Frankly, I don’t believe what he says,” principal Nick Stefanoff says. “I’ve not had a single complaint from any non-Muslim parents. We have dozens of Hindu students and we have a great relationship with them and their parents. When the Indian cricket team played Sri Lanka in the World Cup final (in April in Mumbai), Hindu and Muslim kids came to the school at 4 a.m. to watch it together. They had a great time.”
He says that several of Banerjee’s assertions are wrong — that other kids are denied access to the cafeteria (the prayer is held after lunch when the place is vacant); that prayer is interfering with classes (all classes start on time); and that “secular education” is compromised (class content is decidedly not affected).
“I think he just makes it all up,” says Stefanoff. “He never asked me a thing. Why doesn’t he come and talk to me?”
http://rehmat2.wordpress.com/2011/08/29/hindu-fascists-in-canada/
Off topic, but interesting for those who are interested in how concepts of “debt” function in our society.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/what-is-debt-%E2%80%93-an-interview-with-economic-anthropologist-david-graeber.html
Eric A. Brill says:
August 29, 2011 at 10:28 am
Up for a chuckle? Re-watch the “Why We Fight” American WWII propaganda series on YouTube; in particular “The Battle of Russia” episode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCBb60FHKZ0&feature=watch-now-button&wide=1
Same as it ever was…
kooshy says: August 28, 2011 at 7:34 pm
They Axis Powers got rid of the erratic government of Mr. Qaddafi.
That was their achievement.
I doubt that the situation will be analogous to Iraq since in Iraq there was a blood debt (of Kurds and Shia) that the Sunnis had to re-pay.
That is not the case in Libya.
The new government in Libya will negogiate oil income distribution with various tribes – Berber or Arab – and that will be the end of it.
Years of political instability yes, civil war like Iraq, no.
But let us wait and see.
James Canning says: August 28, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Libya descending into chaos is not in national interests of Iran.
Libya becoming stable with some form of representative government and a structured government.
Iran’s Qaddafi’s Libya was not friendly towards Iran but it was not anti-Shia either.
And he had helped Iran 25 years ago during the Iran-Iraq War.
However, he had spilled the beans, as it were, when he concluded his surrender terms back in 2003.
At that time, he had harmed Iranian interests.
When the protests against the tribal political order of Mr. Qaddafi broke out, in principle, Iran, EU, and AU could have cooperated to ease him out of power without the subsequent blood-shed.
Iranians would have been happy to see him go.
But, given the economic/propaganda/intelligence/financial war being waged by US & EU against Iran, there was no scope for such cooperation.
US & EU were once again forced to use brute force to achieve their political objectives while Iranians – per their Active Neutrality policy – moved in to gain a foothold in Libya.
Future will tell how all of this is going to turn up.
But there has been a diplomatic and political cost to the Axis Powers intervention in North Africa; once gain they have intervened in the affaris of another (Muslim) state and a former colony in less than 8 years.
The lessons of Iraq, Yugoslavia, and Libya will be absorbed by all independen-minded states of the world.
Kathleen says: August 28, 2011 at 6:06 pm
Steve Clemens is a journalist and not a strategist.
He is creating fear where little danger exists.
And yes, you should take my word for it – I am extremely well-informed.
Nahid writes:
“What happend to democracy and freedom? I think usage of democracy and freedom is over. Protect civilians is fashion, this tactic will be soon [be] old.”
“Democracy” and “freedom” will never cease to be used as justifications for US attacks on foreign countries. As certainly as night follows day, any leader whose continued presence threatens US interests will not only be attacking civilians, but also denying democracy and freedom to his people. A leader who has fallen from US grace inevitably possesses all of these characteristics — in some cases for several decades, even if the US has seen fit to mention them only recently.
Eric A. Brill says:
August 29, 2011 at 9:18 am
I’m cautious about drawing conclusions at this moment in the Libyan civil war.
Remember back to the fourth/fifth week of the Iraq war, after US troops had settled in Baghdad? Remember “the model” that was being trumpeted at that stage of the conflict? Yeah, talk about premature.
Maybe the Libyan civil war is close to concluding. Or maybe a fourth phase to the conflict will materialize. We’ll see.
What happend to domcracy and freedom. I think uasage of democracy and freedom is over. protect civilians is fashion, this tactic will be soon old.
NY Times headline (August 29):
“U.S. Tactics in Libya May Be a Model for Other Efforts”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/world/africa/29diplo.html?ref=africa
“Administration officials say that even though the NATO intervention in Libya, emphasizing airstrikes to protect civilians, cannot be applied uniformly in other hotspots like Syria, the conflict may, in some important ways, become a model for how the United States wields force in other countries where its interests are threatened.”
COMMENT:
After overcoming my disappointment that the New York Times took nearly two weeks to come up with such an inevitable article, I was left confused:
Is this new model to be used to “protect civilians” or “where [US] interests are threatened?”
What happens, for example, if US interests are threatened but no civilians are being attacked? Is this new model useless?
Now I understand, though:
There is never one without the other: wherever one sees US interests being threatened, there one will find civilians being attacked, or at least about to be attacked if the US doesn’t do something to protect them within the next few hours.
here is the permanent link to the blog quoted below.
This is what Democracy looks like:
Richard Silverstein:
“If Israel is exclusively a Jewish state then it cannot be a democracy. It can be an ethnocracy in which the Jewish minority has rights that trump the minority. But this is only a partial, or truncated democracy. Not a democracy as you or I know it.
There are a number of states in the world that qualify as democratic and which negotiate (some more successfully than others) complicated relationships among various ethnic groups: Canada, Switzerland, Ireland, Spain, the U.S. So it can be done. And Israel should be examining these models to secure its own future as a truly democratic state.
But there are countries which are not democratic, which have failed miserably at resolving these problems: Rwanda, Serbia, Russia, China, Syria. Does Israel want to end up like them? A basket case among multi-ethnic nations in which discrimination is rampant, in which racism and the original sin of expulsion (Nakba) are in the nation’s DNA?
In the Israel I envision, every group would have guaranteed rights so there would be no reason for Palestinian citizens to avoid military service. Why would there be the problem that Larry Derfner foresees of Israeli Palestinians being asked to shoot and kill Arab citizens of frontline states with which Israel has hostile relations? In fact, if Israel became the sort of state I envision it would go a long way to tempering hostility from all of these frontline states. It would make a large contribution toward resolving the overall conflict among Israel and its neighbors.
In fact, Jewish and Muslim citizens would have an equal stake in the nation and its welfare. What would result from all of this is a state that was not primarily Jewish (or Muslim or Christian) but Israeli. What Israel needs to highlight is not the religious character of the majority group, but an overall national character, one that can be embraced by Jews, Muslims and Christians. Personally, I think Derfner is dead wrong in claiming Israeli Palestinians can never become “truly Israeli.” In fact the very statement troubles me a great deal. In fact, every opinion poll of Israeli Palestinian opinion shows their deep loyalty to the state and their sense of investment in it. I think he is selling his fellow citizens short. Way short.”
Oh really, sounds like this Israeli general finally just now got briefed on President Ahmadinijad’s last 15o interviews in this last 6 years
Not only Israel can’t, without paying a severe cost the same goes for her owner in chief.
Israel “could not stop” nuclear Iran with one strike
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/28/israel-could-not-stop-n_n_939660.html
Martin Luther King and his shattered dream
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/08/29/martin-luther-king-and-his-shattered-dream/
Foreign Policy link
Fear, Incorporated: Who’s paying for all that Islamophobic paranoia?
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/26/fear_incorporated
“Castellio says:
August 28, 2011 at 7:55 pm
FYI, Kathleen… if I may, I think the claim of elements of Al-Qaeda in the Libyan rebellion is to give cover to the purge within the rebel forces which will soon take place. All undesired elements will simply be called Al-Qaeda.”
From what I have read many al Qeada members leaders will go along with any efforts to take out dictators/leaders in that part of the world who have worked with the US/ European interest. Clearly a complicated issue.
“Al Qeada asset”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D7yVkSyIPs
Have folks taken a look at the recently released 130 page report on who and how individuals and groups are funding Islamophobia?
Walt has a short piece up at Foreign Policy The link to the report is at Foreign Policy. Frank Gaffney mentioned a great deal
Fear, Incorporated: Who’s paying for all that Islamophobic paranoia?
Posted By Stephen M. Walt Friday, August 26, 2011
link to walt.foreignpolicy.com
FYI, Kathleen… if I may, I think the claim of elements of Al-Qaeda in the Libyan rebellion is to give cover to the purge within the rebel forces which will soon take place. All undesired elements will simply be called Al-Qaeda.
Fyi
“The Axis Powers have won the game in Libya; you must give them credit for a job well-done.”
Well you will need to explain what was the game in Libya which you think they have won, rely what is the west’s achievement in Libya, what they really gained if any that they did not had before. Before these recent crises in Libya, Libya was fully in the west’s pocket, even more since 2006, including oil, stability etc. I think the Libyan case eventually will become similar to Iraq / Afghanistan with a weak unstable government and an ongoing mixture of Islamic/Nationalist/Pan Arab insurgency, which in that case will be a constant headache for the west, and overall stability of N. Africa, a headache the west did not have before specially during a long and damaging western economic crises. Problems in the N. Africa and the Arab Middle East are much deeper than the western countries at current posture can comprehend or be able to fix.
In the Middle East due to lack of good choices what the western countries did and are still doing, is that they have placed a bet by tossing the coin in the air and hoping to land in their favor, one needs to wait longer to see if that is a lucky bet or not. Regardless of the recent events in Libya and Syria, so far indications are not favorable to the west, due to the length of the crises and the prolonged instability.
Kathleen,
If Gaddafi had 30,000 shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles, it is a bit strange so few were used during the Nato airstrikes.
Fiorangela,
Are you suggesting some sort of trading of favors, or a direct payment to the US from Qatar? I would be pleased if Qatar paid for the US operation but I doubt that it happened.
fyi,
If Libya descends into extended civil war, there will be no “victory” for Nato. I hope this can be avoided. And I should think you would too.
Iran Launches Production of Carbon Fiber
http://www.uskowioniran.com/2011/08/iran-launches-production-of-carbon.html
So FYI guess I am supposed to take your word for it over someone like Atlantic Monthly’s Steve Clemons and others who are worried about Al Queada being involved with the Libyan rebels…missing weapons etc. Not going to happen
Iran’s Annual Oil Revenues:
2011: $82 billion (estimated)
2010: $72 billion
2009: $56 billion
2008: $88 billion
2007: $66 billion
2006: $58 billion
Source: OPEC/Mehr News Agency
Kathleen says: August 28, 2011 at 3:56 pm
This is silly.
There are plenty of MANPADs in teh world and if he could use them he would have used them by now.
And I told you before, he never had the technology to weaponize mustard gas.
This is all silly.
The Axis Powers have won the game in Libya; you must give them credit for a job well-done.
These types of innuendo are – I suppose – aimed to detract from the victory that the Axis Powers have achieved.
Let us see how much of this victory they can translate into concrete benefits to themselves.
They certainly could use this victory and make a case that they are not enemy of Islam, only bad Muslims such as Iraq, Iran, Taliban, Libya under Qaddafi etc.
James Canning,
I would be very surprised if the involvement of the US in the war on Libya was anything other than US renting its military technology, materiel, and intelligence capabilities to the highest bidder, which appears to have been Qatar.
“James Canning says:
August 28, 2011 at 3:25 pm
fyi,
I would say the big danger from loose weapons in Libya comes from small arms, and “machine guns” etc that got into wide distribution during the civil war.”
http://www.leadertelegram.com/news/daily_updates/article_485599e0-0354-5b89-a396-097724f97362.html
Libya’s deadliest weapons missing
What do folks know about this possibility?
Escobar: Al-Qaeda asset is military commander of Tripoli
Published: 27 August, 2011
http://rt.com/usa/news/al-qaeda-libya-commander-escobar-269/
James Canning says:August 28, 2011 at 3:25 pm
Those are only a danger to all her neighbour’s and other african countries.
fyi,
I would say the big danger from loose weapons in Libya comes from small arms, and “machine guns” etc that got into wide distribution during the civil war.
fyi,
I don’t think “anti-Islam” is the programme at these foundations. I do think their programme is “protect Israel right or wrong”, and if scaring the American people about “Islam” is part of the deal, then their attitude seems to be: so be it. But I welcome enlightening comments from others.
Fiorangela,
I think a concise summary of Mark Dubowitz is that he is a leading neocon warmonger propagandist, trying to force Iran into allowing Israel to r*pe the Palestinians at will, for decaces to come. He plays a key role in the conspiracy to deceive the American people into thinking Hamas and Hezbollah pose threats to the US.
James Canning says: August 28, 2011 at 3:05 pm
I am specifically asking about these foundations.
If these foundations have knowingly funded anti-Islam groups then all bets are off.
Kathleen says: August 28, 2011 at 2:49 pm
What un-accounted weapons do you have in mind?
His anti-aircraft weapons were 25 years old and gathering dust in the desert.
His mustard gas factory produced the stuff but he did not have the equipment to weaponize it. (Germans did not give it to him apparently, but they did supply the late Mr. Saddam Hussein so that more Iranians could be killed; furthering Israel’s aims).
And the world is staureated with MANPADs.
Persian Gulf,
I agree Nato has no particular wish for war with Iran. But I would go further and say there is little chance of a Nato war with Iran. An Iranian departure from the NPT would be tremendous news for the warmongers in Israel and the US, who want to oppress the Palestinians into perpetuity. Iran should continue to press for Israeli signing of the NPT and for a Middle East free of nukes.
Persian Gulf,
I would be very pleased if the cost of the UK’s participation in the Nato operation in Libya was reimbursed by the Gulf monarchies. But I rather doubt this has happened or will happen. It would be huge news in the UK.
fyi,
Prominent rich Jews often take pride in funding “think tanks”, and in working to pack the “think tanks” with Jews or other people strongly disposed in favor of Israel. If it is true that Jews control about half the wealth of the US, the huge role Jews play in funding the “think tanks” seems virtually a given.
Col. Pat Lang on the military characteristics of Israel’s fighters.
kooshy says: August 28, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Are these foundations all funded by American Jews?
Do you know or can you verify?
If so, they have even less judgement that I thought.
Steve Clemons at 11:09 on Al Qeada’s role with Libyan rebels
http://www.c-span.org/Events/Washington-Journal-for-Tuesday-August-23/10737423662/
Could the US/Nato be trading unaccounted Libyan weapons for information about Al Queda’s leaders?
Funders of Islamophobia in US named
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/196233.html
Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:6PM GMT
The Islamic Center of America, Michigan, US
Shocking new report reveals that seven foundations and wealthy donors have been behind the 10-year campaign to spread Islamophobia in the US.
The 130 page report by the Center for American Progress (CAP) released on Friday, identified foundations that have provided more than USD 42 million to key individuals and organizations that have spearheaded the nationwide effort between 2001 and 2009.
“Sometimes the money flowing from these foundations and their donors is clearly designed to promote Islamophobia, but more often the support provided is for general purpose use, which is the think tanks and grassroots organizations then put to use on their primary purpose — spreading their messages of hate and fear as far and wide as they can,” the report says.
Among the funders are organizations that have long been associated with the extreme right in the US, as well as several Jewish family foundations that have supported settler groups in Israel.
Donors Capital Fund, Richard Melton Scaife foundations, Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, Newton D. & Rochelle F. Becker foundations and charitable trust, Russell Berrie Foundation, Anchorage Charitable Fund and William Rosenwald Family Fund, Fairbrook Foundation, are among the organizations funding anti Islam experts who promote Islamophobia.
These experts are – among others – Frank Gaffney at the Center for Security Policy, David Yerushalmi at the Society of Americans for National Existence, Daniel Pipes at Middle East Forum, Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch and Stop Islamization of America, Steven Emerson of the Investigative Project on Terrorism, These people spread the information through conservative organizations, politicians and news channels like Fox, the report says.
The Donor Capital Fund was the single biggest contributor paying USD 18 million, to the Clarion Fund during the 2008 election which distributed 30 million anti-Muslim DVDs through local newspapers.
Irene dominates days and days of US news cycle
Seems like they are avoiding reporting about Libya right now.
Keep wondering about the missing Libyan weapons. If they have all ready been confiscated by Al Qeada?
link to usforeignpolicy.about.com
Weapons-In-Libya.htm
This is the recent clip on CSpan’s Washington Journal… where Atlantic Monthly’s Steve Clemons brings up Al Qeada’s involvement with Libyan rebels”
at 11:09
link to c-span.org
Steve Clemons” The real area we need to worry about in Libya is out of a group called the former theLibyan Islamic Fighting group. This was a previously Al Qeada affiliated terrorist Islamist extremist group.’
Greta the host “are they part of the rebellion”
Steve Clemons “they are part of the rebellion”
Second in command of Al Qeada recently killed. originally from Libya. Atiyah abd al Rahman (Jama Ibrahim Ishtawi)
link to in.reuters.com
fyi says:
August 28, 2011 at 2:00 pm
I think just a threat of war with Iran would suffice. in the worse case scenario, they would get involve with the Syria mission and Iran can grab the opportunity and pull out of the NPT. Obviously, Nato won’t go that far to initiate a war with Iran at this juncture.
James Canning says:
August 28, 2011 at 1:55 pm
no I don’t believe Britain spent anything from her pocket specially at the time of sever austerity measure. what was in there for Britain to spend ~425 million dollars? it’s quite likely that the Persian Gulf states financed the war and the axis powers carried through.
Persian Gulf says: August 28, 2011 at 1:22 pm
One could only hpoe for a NATO attack on Syria.
Almost certainly Iran will help Syria – at which point NATO has to decide whether to escalate her war against Iran (from economic/diplomatic/financial/propaganda) to a military one, or not.
A NATO attack against Iran will give the Iranians the necessary political cover to exit NPT once and for all.
Persian Gulf,
Are you saying that the UK did not estimate its spending on its share of the Nato campaign against Gaddafi, as 260 million pounds? Or that it did? Do you think the figure was not accurate, when it was released in late June?
James Canning says:
August 28, 2011 at 1:34 pm
do you really want us to believe this? spending that money for what? humanitarian purposes?! hahaha such nice guys. (Lord Palmerston: “Britain has no permanent friends, only permanent interests.”) do you really think the rest of the world believes what British politicians say? it will take generations, probably never, for the world to forget what Britain has done.
btw, it’s a conventional belief here that old British guys are dangerous (no insult as I did not invent this notion. I just heard it many times and quote it) specially with their unique smile. one should always be guarded so as not to be screwed by them.
Fiorangela,
Dmitri Rogozin tends to get over-excited. There is very little interest in the UK in yet another war in the Middle East, and William Hague is very much opposed to any Nato attack on the ogvernment of Syria.
Persian Gulf,
The British government was expecting to spend 260 million pounds on the Libyan mission, as of late June. No expectation that Qatar would foot this bill.
Fior,
So, Damon Wilson of the Atlantic Council failed to endorse or commend Iran on the advice Iran gave to Bashar al-Assad, (on C-Span this morning)?
fyi says:
August 28, 2011 at 10:21 am
http://alef.ir/1388/content/view/115702/
doesn’t seem to be just rumors. IRNA is silent about the trip. and farsnews is down (it’s falsenews anyhow).
it’s believed that Qatar financed Libya’s mission. does anybody here have more info about it? it’s hard to believe Britain and France could allocate money for the mission at this juncture.
Fiorangela,
And it appears that, in the run-up to 2012 elections in the US, 92 US Senators want to be clear that they are stooges of powerful Jewish interests, scr*wing the American people on behalf of Israel.
Fior,
thanks for link to interesting Slavin article. Isn’t it fair to say the Foundation for Defence of Democracies is yet another propaganda machine facilitating continuing Israeli oppression of the Palestinians? By deceiving the American public (and by providing cover for numerous stooges of the Israel lobby in the US Congress).
I took particular notice that Mark Dubowitz urges more sanctions, in foolish hope of ending Iranian support of Palestinian resistance to Israeli oppression.
Fiorangela,
I would be very surprised if anyone other than the US taxpayer funded the American portion of the Nato operation against Gaddafi.
Unknown Unknowns,
My friend whose wedding i spoke of was attending Berkeley around about that time. He went on to study in Qom for several years.
Enjoy your time there brother. I took a road trip once on the California Coast down through Big Sur and on to Santa Barbara. Beautiful country subhanallah.
Fiorangela says: August 28, 2011 at 10:34 am
A NATO attack on Syria and the ensuing long & bloody war inside and outside of Syria could actually advance the Iranians’ position if that war does not lead to realization of the political aims of the Axis Powers.
fyi, thanks for the diplomatic briefing; most informative.
Qatar’s involvement is interesting; it is my understanding that Qatar financed the NATO campaign against Libya.
Fiorangela says: August 28, 2011 at 10:20 am
Yes, I posted that on this thread earlier.
The Iranian are selling more than half of their oil on long contracts.
There is not much of spare capacity in the world oil markets – decline in the Iranian exports will hurt the global economy.
Iranians can always sell their oil on spot market.
Payments can be made by loading airplanes with cash and sending them over.
This is already being done all over the world by many different actors.
These are all inconveniences; if Iraqis could keep their oil industry functioning with ingenuity after 10 years of sanctions, so can the Iranians.
Note that austerity in Iran is actually going to benefit the private sector as teh state will have to get out of many economic sectors since they could no longer be subsidized.
Fiorangela says: August 28, 2011 at 10:03 am
Latest runmor out of Al Dayar news paper (Lebanon), after last Thursday trip of Emir of Qatar to Iran:
1: The Anti-Syrian position of NATO states is irreversible.
2: That he (Emir of Qatar) can still prevent a NATO assault on Syria if certain things occur.
3: US has requesed him to convey to the Irania Giovernment the need to stablize Afgahnistan.
Al Dayar also state that Iran has stated:
1: A NATO attack on Syria will mean direct involvement of Iran in that War.
2: Iran will designate the struggle to defend Syria as a Pan Islamic one – every Muslim is obligated to help Syria.
3: Iran will attack the NATO bases in Turkey if they are used for attacking Syria.
4: That NATO attack on Syria will ignite a regional war.
Iranian have stated that US policies are contributing to direct confrontation that will burn everyone.
I note here that Iran has a formal alliance treaty with Syria – and not with Turkey.
On the other hand, Mr. Gul has hardened his stance towars Syria.
I will tell you all that Iranians will carry out their promises to defend Syria from external threats.
speaking of Atlantic Council, Barbara Slavin wrote this piece for The New Atlantacist, the Atlantic Council’s blog. http://www.acus.org/new_atlanticist/new-iran-sanctions-could-bring-unintended-blowback
Slavin describes the new sanctions scheme the State Department’s resident financial Torquemadas have dreamed up to convince Iran of the error of its ways, and induce Iran to “change its behavior.” The tactic involves driving down the exchange rate for oil that China, for example, remits to Iran, with the goal of constricting inflows of revenue to Iran. (Recall that the initial problem that Saddam confronted, that lead to what has befallen Iraq today, occurred as Iraq confronted a $70billion war debt from fighting the war against Iran on credit, and instead of helping out its Arab neighbor as Saddam requested, Kuwait responded by lowering the price of oil, thus further straining Iraq’s economy.)
On C Span Washington Journal this morning, it was noted that Tehran had sent a message to Syrian President Bashar Assad, encouraging Assad to implement reforms more quickly and crack down on protesters less brutally.
Asked to comment on Iran’s counsel to Syria, Washington Journal guest Damon Wilson, of Atlantic Council, said that this first ever response of Iran to the Syria oppression was rich in irony, inasmuch as Tehran had so thoroughly brutalized Iranians who were calling for their freedom in 2009. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Program828
Iran just can’t catch a break.
Photi:
Thanks for asking: it feels really good to be back in Berkeley, so much so that I am thinking of staying here for a little while, and maybe longer, though it is too early to tell on that front.
As far as the building, yes, it is huge. I remember when “we” (the Iranian MSA at Berkeley) bought it for a song back in 1994 I think it was $700,000 if you can believe that!). It used to be a Masonic Temple and Lodge, and still has their stained glass insignia intact, covered up behind Islamic calligraphy of the names of Allah (God).
most of this IS on topic, dear Clint, inasmuch as Al Qaeda is EVERYWHERE!
Bibi explained that to US congresscritters on Sept 12, 2002 — look it up on C Span. It’s a monumental performance.
Qaddafi may not have been bin Laden, but he was Saddam-esque; close enough for government work.
Bashar Assad is the next bin Laden look-alike; NATO is preparing to sweep him from the stage, according to Russia’s envoy to NATO Dmitry Rogozin.
“NATO is planning a military campaign against Syria to help overthrow the regime of President Bashar al-Assad with a long-reaching goal of preparing a beachhead for an attack on Iran”
BiBIJon:
Sorry to be the one to have to break this to you, Osama bin Dead since December 2001.
Anti-Israel transit ads are back!
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/08/28/anti-israel-transit-ads-are-back/
Whatever image one might have had of an uncompromising leader of an organization who recognizes no moral/humane limits in her war on infidels ….
surely, this video of a channel-zapping, CNN-watching wretch leaves an inquiring mind with more queries than before USG released the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB0ftf53JYs
Unknown Unknowns,
I attended a wedding once at that Center in Oakland. Impressive building.
If i recall correctly, you mentioned on a post you went to UC Berkeley. How does it feel to be back?
Empty Jan welcome back
and may you again
پر کن پیاله را
که این جام ها که از پی هم میشود تهی
دریای آتش است
که ریزم به کام خویش
Sakineh Khanum: the clip you linked to is an excerpt from Adam Curtis’ *The Power of Nightmares*, a 3-hour documentary produced and shown in three parts by the BBC.
Befarma!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZcESfI4itk&feature=relmfu
Good Escobaristani shtuff on Al-CIA-duuuuuuuuuuuuh in Tripoli
How about getting back on topic folks?
AQ’s No. 2 is dead! Hooray! I am sure the war on terror will be finished in the next week or two…right?
http://www.truth-out.org/al-qaeda%E2%80%99s-no-2-killed-pakistan-us-official-says/1314480401
freedom is slavery.
Empty says: August 27, 2011 at 11:42 pm
No mention is made that US is aiming to destroy Islam.
Interestingly, he mentions Iran being an enemy of US.
I think certainly at the time of this speech, the late Mr. Khomeini was unaware of the US role and the schismatic Christians in the creation of the State of Israel.
Unknown Unknowns,
طاعات شما هم انشالله قبول باشند..
Easing back into it as I am still on the road for another few days and finishing some field work. Look forward to reading the posts and catching up…:)
fyi says,
No mention was made of US or USSR – however.
Excerpts from Imam Khomeni’s speech on 4th Aban 1343 (after the passage of the bill labeled as capitulation bill).
ای سران اسلام به داد اسلام برسید، ای علمای نجف به داد اسلام برسید، ای علمای قم به داد اسلام برسید، رفت اسلام. (گریه شدید حاضرین در مجلس) ای ملل اسلام! ای سران ملل اسلام! ای روئسای جمهور ملل اسلامی! ای سلاطین ملل اسلامی! ای شاه به داد خودت برس، به داد همه ما برسید. ما زیر چكمه امریكا برویم چون ملت ضعیفی هستیم! چون دلار نداریم!….. امریكا از انگلیس بدتر، انگلیس از آمریكا بدتر، شوروی از هر دو بدتر، همه از هم بدتر، همه از هم پلیدتر. ….Oh, heads of Islam, be on guard for Islam. Oh, Najaf Olama, be on guard for Islam. Oh, Qom Olama, be on guard for Islam. Islam is gone [sound of loud cries and tears in the audience]…Oh, Islamic nations! Oh, heads of Islamic nations! Oh, presidents of republics of Islamic nations! Oh, kings of Islamic nations! Oh, Shah, be on guard for yourself! Be on guard for all of us! We are under American boots because we are a weak nation! Because we do not have dollar!….US is worse than Britain, Britain worse than the US, USSR worse than both, each is worse than the other…each is more abominable/despicable than the other….]
اما امروز سر و كار ما با این خبیث هاست، با امریكاست. رئیس جمهور امریكا بداند، بداند این معنا را كه منفورترین افراد دنیاست پیش ملت ما، امروز منفورترین افراد بشر است پیش ملت ما، یك همچنین ظلمی به دولت اسلامی كرده است، امروز قرآن با او خصم است، ملت ایران با او خصم است. دولت امریكا بداند این مطلب را، ضایع كردند او را در ایران، خراب كردند او را در ایران.
“….but today we are dealing with these despicable entities. Dealing with the US. US president should know that he is the most hated figure in the world before our nation for committing such injustice against an Islamic government. Today, Quran is his enemy. Iranian people is his enemy. American government should know this matter….”
Source: Full Speech, Imam Khomeini, 4th Aban, 1343 (=1964), ;http://www.asriran.com/fa/news/55111
James Canning says: August 27, 2011 at 7:16 pm
China has been completly silent on the Russian plan.
I believe that silence means that she sees it for what it is – a chardade.
Russians want to show their displeasure to US & EU – so they again are using the Iran chit; hoping for more IOUs from the Axis Powers.
Iranians, knowing teh charade for what it is, go through the motions of being all for it and always being open to negogiations – knowing full well that their war with U & EU will be continuing for the next decade – at the very least.
Correction to my previous post:
Sunni Muslims need not adhere to the Iranian’s Ja’afari Jurisprudence but they will be persuaded of the political message of Islamic Iran – there is no path forward for the Sunnis except political and politicized Islam.
I also forgot to mention since Iranians have wrapped themselves in the flag of Islam, they can no longer disengage from it. Thus their political flexibility is constricted.
Fundamentally, US-EU are in a religious confronation with Islam on behalf of Jews and Evangelical Christians (those who are in schism of schisms).
James Canning says: August 27, 2011 at 7:19 pm
I cannot comment on what current government did or did not do for US.
Mr. Suharto was an informal US supporter – even though he was putting on the airs of the Non-Aligned Movement.
In regards to Islam and the Islamic Republic: no other Muslim state is standing for Islamic interests; say Plaestine.
No other Mulsim state upholds – with no apology – the primacy and centrality of Islam to the Muslim states and polities; not Turkey, not Saudi Arabia, and not Indonesia.
Iranians have figuratively picked up teh mantle of the Prophet and have wrapped themselves in it.
Sunnis need adhere to the Ja’afaro School of Jurisprudence but – in time – they will be persuaded of the veracity of the political message and stand of Iran.
Outside of Islam there is nothing for Muslim; this has been emphasized to them now by the collapse of the anti-religious socialism of USSR, the exclusivity of the Christian-Gentlmen’s Club of EU, and varities of artificial nationalisms that have come and gone.
There is now no viable alternative to political Islam for the re-organization of the state. And there is no other identity that could persuade hundreds of Millions of Muslims to give it their loyalty.
To this extent, now, Iran speaks for Islam.
Empty says: August 27, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Thank you for your response.
No mention was made of US or USSR – however.
Empty Jaan:
So good to c u back. And what a debut post! And on the year of my birth (gasp) and the turmoil caused by the *islaahaat-e arzi* (land reform act). Fantastic.
Now to abdast, namaz and eftar at the Islamic Cultural Center of Northern California in Oakland.
Namaaz-haa va ruzeh-haa-ye hamegi qabul basheh, insha’llah.
In the words of Vinnie Barbarino: “I am so confused.”
Michael Scheuer says there is AQ. BBC says there is not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk
What to believe?
Those dang cave duelers, coming back to haunt me again and again.
fyi says,
25 years ago, only a very small minority of Sunni Fundamentalist Muslims believed that the United States, USSR, and Israel were aiming to destroy Islam. I do not believe that even Mr. Khomeini publicly took such a position.”
Excerpts from Imam Khomeini’s speech 48 years ago:
اسرائیل نمی خواهد در این مملکت دانشمند باشد، اسرائیل نمی خواهد در این مملکت قرآن باشد؛ اسرائیل نمی خواهد در این مملکت علمای دین باشند؛ اسرائیل نمی خواهد در این مملکت احکام اسلام باشد . اسرائیل به دعوت عمال سیاه خود، مدرسه (فیضیه قم و طالبیه تبریز) را کوبید. ما را می کوبند، شما ملت را می کوبند. می خواهد اقتصاد شما را قبضه کند؛ می خواهد زراعت و تجارت شما را از بین ببرد؛ می خواهد در این مملکت ، دارای ثروتی نباشد، ثروتها را تصاحب کند به دست عمال خود. این چیزهایی که مانع هستند، چیزهایی که سد راه هستند، این سدها را می شکند؛ قرآن سد راه است، باید شکسته شود ؛ روحانیت سد راه است ، باید شکسته شود ؛ مدرسه فیضیه سد راه است، باید خراب شود ؛ طلاب علوم دینیه ممکن است بعدها سد راه بشوند، باید از پشت بام بیفتند، باید سر و دست آنها شکسته شود برای اینکه اسرائیل به منافع خودش برسد ؛ دولت ما به تبعیت اسرائیل به ما اهانت می کند.
“….Israel doesn’t want this nation to have scientists. It doesn’t want this nation to have Quran. Israel doesn’t want this nation to have religious scholars. Israel doesn’t want this nation to have Islamic rules. Israel, with the invitation of of its dark keepers destroyed Feizieh and Talebieh schools in Qom and Tabriz. They are hitting us. They are hitting the nation. They want to have complete control of your economy. They want to destroy your agriculture and commerce. They want this nation to have no wealth. They are taking over the nation’s wealth in the hand of their agents. These are obstacles. These are obstacles in their ways. They are trying to break these obstacles. Quran is an obstacle for them, It must be destroyed. Clergy is an obstacle for them, it must be destroyed. Feyzieh seminary is an obstacle for them, it must be destroyed. Religious scholars might one day become an obstacle in their ways. Therefore, they must “fall” from the roof top; their head and hands must break so that Israel could reach its goals. Our government follows Israel’s order in slandering us….”
Source: Complete Manuscript of Imam Khomeini’s Speech on Ashura, 13th of Khordad 1342 (= 1963) ;http://www.15khordad42.ir/show.php?page=article&id=75
Fior,
My understanding is that Christians and Jews prospered in the 700+ years that most of the Iberian Peninsula was under Islamic rule (from 711 to 1492). Constantinople had fallen to Moslem hands about 50 years earlier (1453), and when *los reyes Catolicos* (Ferdinand and Isabella) reconquered Andalusia for Christendom and issued the Alhambra Decree expelling all Jews from Spain, many Jews took refuge in the recently renamed Istanbul, fka Constantinople, where they were welcomed and were allowed to live and prosper as a religious minority. The Moslems too were persecuted, of course. They were given the option to convert to Christianity or leave the country under penalty of death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Alhambra_Decree
Cairo: ‘Israeli flag is not welcome’
http://rehmat2.wordpress.com/2011/08/28/cairo-%e2%80%98israeli-flag-is-not-welcome%e2%80%99/
fyi,
The Gulf monarchies do not want a US war with Iran. Unless, possibly, it appears Iran is in fact building nukes.
Has Indonesia been cooperative with the US over the past decades in your view? Has the government of that country been subverted as a result?
fyi,
Surely you are not claiming that the Sunnis will take their religious guidance from Tehran or Qom.
You appear to argue that if China is not outspoken in support of the Russian proposal for staged reductions in sanctions, the proposal either is not serious or has no chance of being adopted.
Fior @ August 27, 2011 at 2:50 pm
Indeed. There is a light that never goes out.
And yes, Moslem Spain was indeed governed under its own specific form of Sharia.
haha the US obsession with MEK is beyond reasonable:
“Today’s event included speeches by several former U.S. officials and congressmen, including former Representative Patrick Kennedy (Rhode Island-Republican) who said in Persian, ” I am Iranian, I am an Ashrafi,” referring to the camp in Iraq. He also warned Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki that he will be put on trial in the International Criminal Court for attacking Camp Ashraf.”
http://www.payvand.com/news/11/aug/1249.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Who is he…to warn a soverign states PM about a terrorist cult organization? Robert kennedy obvioulsy support terrorism.
James Canning says: August 27, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Where are the Chinese in this?
Nowhere.
Per the subject matter of this thread; US and EU involvement in teh affairs of Muslim states, their support for the state of Israel, the shallow anti-religious and anti-Muslim postures of their thinkers all beneficial to the Islamic Republic of Iran.
Iranians do not have to do anything to undermine the security of the Axis Powers; they themselves are generating the forces that is doing so.
All the Iranians need to do is to sit and watch as the Axis Powers dig themselves deeper into their own morass.
The Islamic Republic of Iran has become Islam – mark my words.
James Canning says: August 27, 2011 at 5:08 pm
Half a decade ago every single state in Southern Persian Gulf was warned by Iran what would befall them if US started a war against Iran.
These states have a fundamentally anti-Iranian posture.
When they are all replaced by Islamic Republics, Iran will be in a safer situation.
The so-called Azeri Republic – a designation given to them by Stalin – also has a fundamentally anti-Iran posture. That state also must eb counted as a potential enemy of Iran and so treated.
None of these governments will outlast the Islamic Republic of Iran; all of them will be destroyed as they curry favor for the Axis Powers.
No Third-World Government that has curried favor for US and her formal allies has ever survived.
fyi,
Fortunately, the Iranian government has a policy of seeking good relations with all countries in the Middle East, except Israel. And good relations with other “Gulf” countries is obviously the best way forward, in my view.
I think you play into the hands of the warmongers, who claim Iran is determined to undermine the security of “the west” in whatever way it can.
A good summary of Russian proposal for staged reductions in sanctions, from PressTV: “Russia N-proposal could be breakthrough”:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/195247.html
James Canning says: August 27, 2011 at 4:30 pm
I am only observing that the removal of the pro-Axis Mulsim regimes in the states around Iran enhances her security.
Normalization of Iran-US relations are no longer possible.
US has tangled herself in a web of sanctions that – as others have observed – cannot be removed.
The strategic choice for Iran is to bind the nascent Shia government in Iraq to herself and watch and take advantage of any and all opportunities to enhance her power and influence in the areas around itself.
There are many ways of doing this that does not require Iranians to field any armies.
I stand by what I have said about the latest charade out of Moscow.
You are too young to have first-hand experience with the hard men who formulate policies in this world.
Fiorangela says: August 27, 2011 at 4:48 pm
He had stated his opinion.
I stated mine.
I stand by it.
But the Jewish Philosophy owes its existence to that period and the Muslim Thinkers whose idea were used as foundations of the Jewish Philosophers.
They owe a great debt to Islam and to Iran, no doubt.
But for a piece of land in Palestine they are throwing it all away.
Their choice – their consequences.
fyi, the Public Television series that is based on the book by, and moderated by, Abba Eban, titled “Heritage, Civilization and the Jews,” refers to the period of Jewish life in Andalusia as “the Jewish Golden Age.”
Information at the link answers the question I addressed to Unknown Unknowns:
“the period known to Jewish historians as the Golden Age of Spain – roughly the tenth through the twelfth century – when the Iberian Peninsula was under Islamic rule.“
In a speech to a Hillel group at University of Chicago in 1972, Milton Friedman argued that Jews did well under capitalism because they had been persecuted so much that they learned how to get around the rules, and created wealth by exploiting loopholes and and creating commodity niches where none had existed before. :http://www.law.uchicago.edu/audio/friedman101578 (Elizabeth Warren has called that loopholes and niches mindset “tricks and traps.”)
The evidence that is before our eyes demonstrates that a system of commerce and finance based on exploiting loopholes results in vastly outsized gain for some, at the cost of great suffering for the many. As well, the historic periods in which Jewish people have engaged in this “loophole capitalism” or, oligarchically controlled capitalism, has corresponded with the period during which Jewish people have been respected least and suffered most in the states where they have practiced that form of capitalism.
The obvious conclusion is, therefore, that Jewish people live more prosperous and culturally rich lives within Islamic rule as compared to Jewish lives within oligarchic or centrally-controlled capitalism.
This is a conversation I’ll have to rejoin with my older son. I can still hear his words, as I was driving him home from college in his junior year and he spoke of his great admiration for the genius of Milton Friedman. I worry about the young people of the US who have been seduced by the Reagan years of only-upward trending prosperity charts, and easy money. The higher they rise the harder they fall.
I recommend the review by Patrick Seale in the Weekend Financial Times today, of James Barr’s ” A Line in the Sand – - Britain, France and the Struggle that Shaped the Middle East”. Focus is on the post First World War mandates.
Humanist,
The “dishonesty” by the “West”, in its dealings with Iran regarding the nuclear porgramme, of course has a great deal to do with the ISRAEL LOBBY in the US (and Canada), and the EU. And I agree with you that this dishonesty, plus ample stupidity, have prevented a resolution of the dispute. Unlike FYI, I think (as do you apparently) the dispute can be resolved through negotiations.
fyi,
I of course disagree with you, and I think Sergei Lavrov’s proposal for phased reductions in sanctions is the only way forward, that has potential to result in normal US-Iran relations.
And I of course think you are quite mistaken, to urge Iran to be hostile toward its neighbors.
Israel again, our masters.
What is Israel? Safe haven for Jewish gangsters, Jewish criminals, Jewish organized crime. Thats the point of the State of Israel and everything else is distraction. Witness the way politicians in the US (elsewhere, too, probably) are bribed and intimidated to support Israel, the modus operandi of gangsters.
In the event that the politicians cannot protect them, they can flee to Israel which will not extradite them. Madoff didn’t flee to Israel because he’d stolen from Jewish gangsters.
The mystery is why ordinary Jews who don’t have that vested interest in a safe haven for criminals go along and support it.
Re Scheuer’s book — this is like the story a few weeks ago from Richard Clark that Tenet had met with 2 of the hijackers. Blah, blah, blah. They’re just trying to maintain the official story that, yes, 19 amateur Arab hijackers really did outsmart FBI, CIA, NORAD, FAA. And airport security at 4 airports simultaneously without eve one look-out support person to guide them through. How many look-outs were3 among the 19 or so Israelis it took to kill one man in a hotel room in Dubai?
No, Scheuer is not a “failed bureaucrat.” Most of what intelligence agencies like the CIA do is create false leads, I’ve read. Thats what Mr. Scheuer is, a false lead creator in support of the incredible official story.
All:
The economic war continues:
http://www.acus.org/new_atlanticist/new-iran-sanctions-could-bring-unintended-blowback
Fiorangela says: August 27, 2011 at 2:50 pm
There never was a Golden Age of Jewery until the establishment of the United States.
Jews have fared well in the United States, future will tell the extent to which their exertions on behalf of the State of Israel inside the United State, together with those of their Christian Zionist associates, has harmed their future prospects in the United States.
Rehmat says: August 27, 2011 at 2:50 pm
I suggest you stick to subjects of which you have a rudimentary knowledge.
There are not that many, it seems.
Unknown Unknowns,
Firstly, thankfully, we can be assured that the light-seeking tendencies of the Unknown Unknowns will penetrate however many layers of manure, whether bovine, equine, or chick-ine.
Secondly, was Andalusia, that era of Moorish, Berber, Jewish, and (minority) Christian civilization that prevailed in Hispania for 500 years, the period that Jews call their “Golden Age,” ruled by Islamic law?
fyi – When was the last time you read your holy Talmud?
Under the Persian king who married Jewish Esther – Talmud says Persia was world’s greatest civilized nation.
The last Friday of the Muslim-fasting month of Ramadan – was declared as International Al-Quds Day by Imam Khomeini in 1981. The Israeli Mossad choose the day to hit another Muslim nation after its bombing of United Nations building in Abuja (Nigeria) a few days ago. This time its victims were 36 people including 12 Algerian officers in training at Algerian military academy in Cherchell while they were at an Iftar (breaking of day’s fasting) party inside the military academy compound. The suicide bombing injured another 20 people.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/08/27/did-mossad-hit-algeria/
MHF says: August 27, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Which Iranian government, since the formation of Iran in 1500, was not composed of “gangsters” – as you put it?
When did Iran have a better government for more than a single generation – 20 years?
Please state your examples so that we can gauge the extend to which the Islamic Republic has deviated from the splendid examples of the Iranian Governments of the past.
We should all remember that Mr. Michael Scheuer, although he would have had more information regarding AlQaedeh because of the job he held at the time of 9/11, is only a failed bureaucrat. If this guy knew his job, and was an able “head” of the AlQaedeh Unit while at CIA during 9/11, we would have had no 9/11.
I am surprised that Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett are now so much out of made-up reasons for their support of gangsters as government in Iran that they are using writings of this failed bureaucrat trying to represent himself as a knowledgeable CIA spy. If Mr. Michael Scheuer was any good in his job, he would have caused to prevent the 9/11 attacks, not talking and writing about AlQaedeh afterwards. Some people have no shame!
James,
As an dedicated anti-war I would welcome any type of dialogue, since there are many coherent rational arguments on advantages of sincere discussions over violent or deceptive confrontations. Additionally Computer Simulations consistently prove, in the long run, dialogue could cause results that are beneficial to both sides while in confrontations both sides end up losing..
In Iran-West nuclear dispute the big IF is the issue of (Israeli)Western sincerity. I believe if West was honest the issue could have resolved long time ago.
James Canning says: August 27, 2011 at 1:04 pm
Since I do not think that Islam can be destroyed, it follows that you are asking the wrong person.
But the belief persists even in an un-articulated form.
I would like to point out to you that for all Muslim states and peoples, excepting Iran – with its ancient traditions – there is nothing outside of Islam. Civilization, Culture, Urbanity, Morals, etc. are all defined within Islam.
You fight with enough Muslim states and eventually you will find yourself in a religious war that you cannot win and you cannot extricate yourself from.
James Canning says: August 27, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Russian proposal is a diplomatic charade and shadow theatre.
If it were serious, Chinese would immediately have seized upon it.
I have told you and others that the Iranian Nuclear case is over; it has become a frozen conflict that will persist for years if not decades – barring a change of heart by the United States – the central pillar of the Axis Powers Alliance.
As the UNSC sanctions unravel and Iranians continue their nuclear development and pursue their policy of “Active Neutrality” and the Axis Powers continue on imposing their own sanctions, both war and peace become unfeasible.
The most likely scenario will be one in which both sides will be forced to cooperate on tactical levels for this or that objective on a limited transactional basis within the current impass.
Even then, the Axis Powers will look for the first sign of weakness to repeat their Bosnia-Kosovo-Iraq-Libya perscriptions.
FOr the Iranians, I should think that the demise of pro-West states in their around them now has become a strategic necessity.
James Canning says: August 27, 2011 at 12:51 pm
Palestinians.
fyi,
What do you mean by “destroy” Islam? Was “Islam” “destroyed” by the overthrow of Gaddafi?
All:
25 years ago, only a very small minority of Sunni Fundamdentalist Muslims believed that the United States, USSR, and Israel were aiming to destriy Islam.
I do not beleieve that even Mr. Khomeini publicly took such a position.
Now that belief has become the common consensus among Muslims – Shia or Sunni – if not among their governments.
In Punjab, this certainly is now a common belief; US & Israel trying to destroy Islam.
One has to rely on anecdotes to try to gauge the extent of this belief among other Muslim polities.
Dr. Zogby ought to have included that in his questionaire:
“Do you believe the United States aims to destroy Islam?”
Or
“Which country do you consider to be the worst enemy of Islam:”
a: China
b: Russia
c: Israel
d: US
e: India
f: UK
We do not have such data available – so outside of Punjab – one has to be careful in one’s assessments.
fyi,
Are you referring to the Palestinians, or to the Shia community of Bahrain? Are to all the “Arab people”? (“Jailed” by the US and the EU)
Humanist,
Do you support the Russian proposal for phased reductions in sanctions against Iran?
Off topic
Below is the link for Press TV’s video (24 min) about the Iranian position on Russian step-by-step proposal to resolve the issue of Iran’s nuclear bomb.
http://www.presstv.ir/Program/196016.html
With fair critical view it is hard to find any major weakness in Iranian arguments, while the originally weak Israeli+p5+1 arguments are ever-increasingly showing more weakness as the time goes by.
Conclusion: In the long run, deceptive or bullying tactics are bound to backfire ..thus with or without war with Iran the p3+2 side will default… dishonorably.
K. Voorhees @ recent:
Indeed, the whole of the economy of the “free” world (i.e., the enslaved world, in Singlespeak) is a scheme the immense magnitude of which Charles Ponzi was not even aware of. It is a scheme wherein the act of creation of money, that ultimate arbiter, is reserved for the vulgar rich: how it is created, in what amounts, and to whom it is maldistributed. You know, The Golden Rule: He with the gold makes the rules. The private institution that is the instrument by which this fraud is effected is the Federal Reserve, created in 1913.
http://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Edward-Griffin/dp/091298645X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1314454545&sr=1-2
(I call the Federal Reserve a “private institution” in the same sense that I consider the Legislative, Judicial and Executive branches private entities: in capitalistic systems, government in toto, by definition, is created for the enforcement of private rather than communal interests – that is the acid or should I say acrid?, criterion.
Happily, we have, in the Islamic tradition, an alternative. However, it has not been articulated, let alone attempted to be instituted in the Modern era (yes, even in the good ol’ Islamic Republic as of yet), as that tradition, has been sadly and absent from the significant developments of recent times. The Sunnite branch basically sold out to Power from the beginning (leading to their ‘ulama being coopted by the Caliphate (this was later institutionalized, so that the ‘ulema were simply on the Sultan’s payroll – a clear and present conflict of interest), and the Shi’ite ‘ulema were asleep at their quiescent wheel, or better, manqal until Imam Khomeini sounded the alarm, rahmatu’llah alayh.
So yes, “they are at war with us”, but no, it is not that “we” don’t know it. *We*, the followers of the Line or Way (khatt) of the Imam know it and *have* known it, but yes, your smaller constituency does not know it, because until an alternative can be formulated and articulated, that part of the human psyche that abhors a vacuum will not allow it into the event horizon, or field of vision, if you prefer.
Fior:
Soil Amendment. So *that’s* what they’ve been feeding me. Thank you for the addition of yet another gem to my lexicon euphemisticus :o)
paul says:
August 27, 2011 at 9:06 am
So how do respected scholars ignore the fact that Al Quaeda started out as a US covert asset?
*
Paul: its all about the mass psychology of fascism. Here’s a Golden Oldie for ya:
http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Psychology-Fascism-Wilhelm-Reich/dp/0374508844/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314453778&sr=8-1
Clint, at 11:42 pm Aug 26, quoted this passage:
“While it is hard for Americans to hear, we are at war with a steadily growing number of young men and women in the Muslim world because of what the U.S. government has done in that arena since 1945. ”
Two parts to that sentence:
1. “it is hard for Americans to hear . . .”
Yes, it is “hard” because Americans are unaware of history; because the history has been fictionalized, censored, distorted, and filtered for about a century; because information media and the entertainment industry have coalesced with government to form one giant propaganda machine. The life blood of a government By the People is information; the situation we are in today is akin to having chocolate syrup running through petroleum pipelines and into our cars.
The links that Unknown Unknowns provided, to the Adam Curtis series, is a good overview of the power of propaganda.
Benjamin Netanyahu’s offhand comment to a US House committee on Sept. 12, 2002, that Hollywood programs like “Melrose Place and Beverly Hills 90210 should be beamed into Iran, to make the young people desire the houses and swimming pools and clothes; that’s subversive,” deserves to be assayed with all the care one brings to a pearl of great price. Those programs have been “beamed into” the US for generations, and America’s young people — and not so young people — have been “subverted” by the value set that Hollywood has surrounded us with.
2. The second important thought in that sentence: “. . .because of what the U.S. government has done in that arena since 1945. ”
This approaches the root of the problem, but it’s still a few years off.
In a series of lectures recorded by The Teaching Company, on the History of US-Middle East relations from 1914 to 2001, Prof. Salim Yaqub of UC Santa Barbara makes the case that:
many of the seeds of U.S. policy and its dilemmas were planted during the administration of Woodrow Wilson. . . .issues like Wilson’s endorsement of the Balfour Declaration, and its collision with the concept of national self-determination Wilson advanced in his famous “Fourteen Points.” [And] the decisions made at the 1920 San Remo Conference when Europe’s victors (with minimal U.S. participation) divided the Ottoman Empire’s non-Turkish areas into “mandates” to be temporarily administered by France (Syria and Lebanon) and Great Britain (Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine) until ready for independence.
In “Faith Misplaced: The Broken Promise of U.S. – Arab Relations: 1820-2001,” Ussama Makdisi, professor of history at Rice University, digs a little deeper than does Dr. Yaqub, to reveal the long era of warm and positive US-Arab relations until the WWI point that is Yaqub’s starting point. In agreement with Yaqub’s thesis, Makdisi writes:
“Many, if not most, of the conflicts that today rage in the Middle East can be traced back to key British and French decisions taken between 1916 and 1920. . . .[T]he U S government did not yet consider the Middle East a strategically crucial part of the world. It acquiesced to the new colonial arrangement that laid the seeds for Arab disillusionment with America and the West. . . .Choices, not fate, drive this tale . . .to our current unhappy circumstances.
“The pivot point is 1948 and the crucial U S role in helping to create and then defend the exclusively Jewish state of Israel . . .built directly at the expense of Palestinian Muslims and Christians who had been the overwhelming majority . . . until they were forced out of their homes. . . . More than any other single factor, the presence of Israel has altered the course of U S – Arab relations.” p. 4
Yaqub and Makdisi agree that the roots of the problem lie in the period around the first modern European war, but the pivot point is U S involvement in the creation of Israel.
The project of educating Americans about the honest history of relations between the U S and Arabs that were impacted by Israel (and the rather different but related involvement of Iran in that triangle of resentment), is made only “harder” when honest and fact-based information and discourse is not permitted.
I’ve had to do some major renovations to an area of my yard around a large maple tree. I learned that a characteristic of maple trees is that their roots always seek the surface; you can dump tons of topsoil and mulch on them (as well as my favorite soil amendment, horse manure), but those roots will seek exposure to sunlight. The truth is like that, too.
Unknown Unknowns,
I follow some financial stories once in a while. Its just an interest, I am not an investor. Its just that once in a while I run across a piece of something that intrigues me. The scams that are going on out there! There is no accountability. Madoff is unique among Ponzi scammers for being in prison and thats probably because the people he scammed were so predominantly Jewish and it outraged our media. I’m watching a lady on TV right now talking about “the human wreckage” left by Madoff! Those dead Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans probably didn’t grab her attention, I’m guessing.
Two other scams that intrigue me are something called “Groupon” which is going to be selling stock to the public. Its an out and out Ponzi scheme. An absurd idea where people pay to buy coupons. But what you got to wonder is if the people who manage state pension funds have been putting money into it and will buy the stock because they do that. Its an inside game. Pension funds lose hundreds of millions on business deals that an ordinary person who reads the newspaper would never invest in. See the $6 billion Peter Cooper/Stuyvesant Village deal that defaulted with $500 million of California Public Employee Retirement money lost and hundreds of millions more in NY and FL state pension money disappeared.
My point is that we are at war with these people and we don’t even know it. They are stealing everything they can think of and they are protected by our politicians. They are constantly coming up with new ways to steal. They have all kinds of connections in the Federal Reserve to loan them money so they can start up their thieving enterprises.
Clint,
I know, all the above is “off topic.” But what can the “topic” be when the article is about Michael Scheuer’s book, Michael Scheuer, the “Special Advisor to the Chief of the bin Laden unit from September 2001 to November 2004.”
I looked him up. Yes, he was in there when Rumsfeld was telling Russert that there was “more than one” of those fabulous caves. So, he believed it or what? What kind of “expert” on bin Laden believed in those caves? Answer: Someone who didn’t know anything about bin Laden or someone who lies about bin Laden.
Here is a picture of the bin Laden caves that our “intelligence community” believed existed per Rumsfeld in December 2001:
http://www.tyrannynews.com/2011/05/flash-back-rumsfeld-presents-bin-ladens-underground-fortresses-on-meet-the-press/
No offense, but why would anyone give credence to anything out of Michael Scheuer’s mouth?
So how do respected scholars ignore the fact that Al Quaeda started out as a US covert asset?
Photi, thanks! the link is here:
http://mondoweiss.net/2011/08/independent-how-israel-takes-its-revenge-on-boys-who-throw-stones.html
Since US tax dollars fund the IDF goons, this can be considered one of the motivations for terrorism.
Any questions on why they hate us? See the above link.
JUST IN DEFENCE OF THE IRANIAN PEOPLE:
Just so that every one does not think that Iranian opposition are a bunch of CIA agents, I will present the following links to the persian speakers of this site. Unfortunately since they are sound files it will be very hard for me to translate them into English text for the benefit of people of such as Arnold Evans and Eric Brill. These two links are for the Oersian speakers of this site.
I am presenting them so that it could be understood that not all Iranian oppostion are the likes of the rabble who are promoted by the likes of Scott Lucas!
The following two links are an interview by Mr. Nasser Zarafshan, the great servant of the Iranian people who represented the families of the victims of the “serial killings” (قتل های زنجیره ای) who went to jail for several years just for representing the victims and trying to uncover the truth.
So yes Mr. Lucas, there are BRAVE people in Iran who fight for “democracy” (NOT for liberal democracy) and go to jail, but they are not on the pay-roll of your patrons and they fight for the independence of Iranians! Listen to what they say about Libya and Syria! Listen and LEARN! (get some persian speaker in your rabble to translate it for you):
;http://vimeo.com/28090753
;http://vimeo.com/28099114
UU, for more evidence that the house of lies is falling, you should read the comments over at Mondoweiss today about the Independent article discussing Israeli torture of children.
Everyone, i have been noticing lately that many people (in comment sections at various websites) have been making an observation that American-think is undergoing a sea change as far as the public is concerned with regards to Israel. Is this just wishful thinking or do you think there has been a qualitative shift in American public opinion about Israeli atrocities?
K. Voorhees
The Navy Seals didnt get any commendations cause they all went down in that chopper those pesky Eye-rainians shot down in Afghanistan. Didnt u read that? Its gotta be a first: A false flas event ratcheting up the war rhetoric while taking care of the loose end of the non-existent “Navy Seals” which were in turn supposedly taking care of a guy who had by all accounts died a decade earlier.
Methinks the Screenplay Writer isnt playing fair in preparation for the Grand Finale of the Fireworks Display, whereat the whole Edifice of Lies will come crashing down on the heads of the Global Arrogance and Lying Weasels, like a house of cards, or better yet, like sejjil, pieces of adobe clay, like the ones that their Satanicpredator drones have rained down on the heads of innocent souls for as long as the Great Lie has been played out.
May God curse them all ajma’een. Ameen.
I am glad we are back on topic…for a bit at least!
Since this was posted very early on, and at the risk of repeating myself, let me say that I think Scheurer comes closest to “getting it”:
Scheurer is well placed to analyze the roots of terror since he served on the OBL desk at the CIA — in fact, he led it.
Here is what he said in The Hill newspaper:
http://thehill.com/special-reports/homeland-security-january-2010/75531-when-troops-and-cia-officers-die-for-a-fantasy
“The young Nigerian in Detroit and the Jordanian bomber in Khost and his wife have told America’s Marines, soldiers, and CIA officers what they already surely sense, but what their political leaders deny. Both attackers cited motivations that pivot on U.S. support for Israel against the Palestinians; U.S. occupation of Muslim lands; and U.S. attacks on their fellow Muslims.
The three individuals’ words echo the components of U.S. foreign policy named by bin Laden in 1996 as the causes of war — which also include U.S. support for Arab tyrants and exploitation of Muslim energy resources — and which polls show 80 percent of the world’s Muslims identify as attacks on their faith.
While it is hard for Americans to hear, we are at war with a steadily growing number of young men and women in the Muslim world because of what the U.S. government has done in that arena since 1945.
The current slate of U.S. foreign policies toward the Islamic world generates the basic and most compelling and uniting motivation for our Islamist enemies.
Should some of these policies be changed? I surely think so…..”
@Clint, “So we will likely get hit by other terrorist groups (not AQ) and by lone wolfs.”
The dog that doesn’t bark. Our neocons, media propagandists, politicians, etc. do not fear being targeted for attacks. Does Charles Krauthammer or Max Boot or Pamela Geller fear being targeted by “Al Qaeda” or Muslim “jihadists” by any name? No, they don’t. If there really was a Muslim/jihadist/whatever threat, they would target the people drumming up hatred and bribing politicians.
Hoax upon hoax upon hoax. Bin Laden surprised in his underwear by valiant Navy SEALS! He and his entourage thought those helicopters hovering overhead were coming for the guy in the house next door?? It goes on and on because it doesn’t matter that the stories are so farfetched and no one believes them. Note how the Congress didn’t even pass a Resolution of commendation for the Navy SEALs. That story was so ripe that everyone ran from it.
Let me guess, Mr. Scheuer doesn’t deal with any of the particulars of 9/11, like Building 7, the one that wasn’t hit by an airplane and blew up – according to the government – because the building got too hot. Neither does he deal with the catastrophic failures of NORAD, FBI, CIA, all other US and worldwide intelligence agencies, FAA, airport security at 4 airports simultaneously??? Does he deal with the unreliability of the identities of the hijackers who outsmarted everyone, witness the Bukharis who CNN reported to have been on the passenger manifest out of Boston but one had died a year earlier and the other was found alive and cleared of any connection. Does Mr. Scheuer deal with the fabulous bin Laden caves, attested to by Rumsfeld on Meet the Press in December 2001? Was Mr. Scheuer still in government at that time and did he also believe in the fabulous caves with hospital and computer facilities, ventilations shafts, bedrooms, entrances large enough for tanks?
And on and on. Mr. Scheuer is another glib liar, too. He knows very darned well that the “Al Qaeda” story has holes big enough to drive tanks through.
Our elites have no accountability. They start wars and kill people and pat themselves on the back for being great humanitarians. They rob us and lose the money and get bailed out. You never know what they’ll do next except that it will be selfish.
James Canning says: August 26, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Mr. Ahmadinejad was addressing himself to the non-Western world in general and Muslims world in particular.
And he has the moral high ground; he supports the cause of an imprisoned people whose jailors are supported to the hilt bu US & EU.
Ron Paul: ‘US has to live with Iran nukes’
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/08/27/ron-paul-us-has-to-live-with-iran-nukes/
القدس لنا!
Way off topic… just wondering, Fiorangela, if you’re aware of: Oriental Stories As Tools in Psychotherapy: The Merchant and the Parrot by Nossrat Peseschkian
Interesting piece by William Lind, regarding American hubris (“Battles won, wars lost”)
http://www.amconmag.com/blog/battles-won-wars-lost/
Off Topic:
Ron Paul issues statement on Libya. A fresh bowl of Mast-o-Khiar for the first person to guess how many American MSM outlets even mentioned this.
http://www.eurasiareview.com/ron-paul-will-libya-descend-into-anarchy-oped-26082011/
BiBiJon,
Who are the fools calling for “rolling back Russia’s and China’s influence in Central Asia”?
Sorry, meant to say:
but it is a major leap to go from criticizing his embellishing of statistics to labeling the entire idea an “untruthful conspiracy theory”.
Photi says:
August 26, 2011 at 11:57 am
“so now, how ever many of those Muslims who believed Ahmadinejad at the UN are now busying themselves with untruthful conspiracy theories.”
This sounds like you are attempting to discredit any alternatives to the USG’s official narrative of 9/11. You do make a fair point about Mr. Ahmedinejad potentially exaggerating the amount of the American populace that believe that it was at SOME level an “inside job” (to the detriment of his larger point), but it is a major leap to go from criticizing his embellishing of statistics to labeling the entire idea a “conspiracy theory”.
Is your issue that he claimed that the majority of Americans believe that our government’s fingerprints were on this, or that he even presented such a controversial viewpoint? Would you have taken such exception if he had instead stated that “many Americans even believe this”?
A brief note to thank Clint for his contributions yesterday.
Is Al-Qaeda stronger?
However long it might take to compute an answer to that very important (to us) question, the rest of the world moves on.
However, things can change when India gets full membership of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO). The American rhetoric often spoke of a Great Central Asia strategy aimed at rolling back Russian and Chinese influence in that region by bringing it closer to the Indian market. By deciding instead to work with Russia and China and the Central Asian countries within a regional framework, India has made a significant policy decision. The diplomatic challenge now will be to put in place the underpinning to galvanise India’s economic ties with Central Asia once the SCO membership gains traction. This underpinning principally involves robust ties with Iran and pressing ahead imaginatively with the normalisation process with Pakistan. In sum, India’s Hajigak challenge is to get the act together in its regional policies by evolving a strategy of mutually beneficial cooperation with Afghanistan and Central Asia, built on predictable ties with Pakistan and Iran.
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article2400721.ece?homepage=true
fyi,
The “moral high ground” in Libya would have been for Gaddfi to say that he very much regretted the incident (or whatever) at (wherever), and that measures were being taken to restore public order. Then he should have hired a very good PR company and had them control all subsequent messages to the public.
fyi,
I think Ahmadinejad does not have the PR sense that Lincoln possessed. I think the cause of the liar-warmongers in the US is made much easier due to some of the statements the Iranian president makes. To be fair, most of the sensible comments made by Ahmadinejad tend not to get reported in US newspapers and on network TV.
Since 16 US intelligence agencies agree there is no basis for a US attack on Iran, given that there is no evidence the government of Iran wants to build nukes or is doing so on the sly, I think there is more reason to be optimistic and to urge sensible comments by all those watching events in the Middle East.
Yes, warmongering Jews in the US, other American warmongers and foolish supporters of Israel right or wrong, would like to see an attack on Iran. Many other Americans oppose any such thing.
nahid says: August 26, 2011 at 2:09 pm
Yes, astonishing also to see how the late Mr. Khomeini’s positions on many subjects have beocme the Muslim main-stream.
http://www.farsnews.com/media.php?nn=13900604165525
James Canning says: August 26, 2011 at 1:00 pm
Moral high ground will get you killed.
As I have stated before: Axis Powers beef with Iran is her independence.
Abraham Lincoln could be the Leader of Iran and Martin Luther King jer president; it would make no qualitative differences.
Photi,
you wrote,
“it is so hard to find a critical voice to direct at Iran. The criticism would be intended to help, but there are so many powerful forces trying to bring the IRI down that i often think criticism, especially by a non-Iranian american citizen, is more counter-productive than silence. ”
I agree.
imo NIAC has chosen the wrong path in JOINING criticism of Iran; every time Parsi tosses some bone to the US establishment anti-Iran contingent, it is used to feed the dog that’s poised to bite Iran.
It seems to me that a non-Iranian has no business attempting to reform Iran’s domestic situation; that’s for Iranians to do. If it seems heartless to you that an American who is fond of Iran ignores alleged human rights abuses by Iran’s government, that’s unfortunate. The best an American can do is to reform American politics and policy toward Iran, to give Iranians space to create their own society in their own image.
kooshy,
The Emir of Qatar is friendly toward Hamas. And you seem to argue this is the position the US wants and insists he take!
Kathleen,
Bravo, and I too have the feelings of chagrin caused by watching Obama knowingly lie to the American people, time and time again, about US “freedom” being the reason America is hated by so many scores of millions of Muslims. I think Obama is only too well aware that US facilitation of oppression of the Palestinians, year in and year out, is a major driving force in the equation. But Obama is himself the creature of rich and powerful Jews who put him in the White House.
Fiorangela,
Kruschev wanted Eisenhower to apologize for the U-2 flights, but Ike refused. Thus the summit was cancelled.
fyi,
You ignore the very significant NIE on Iran in 2007, that made a US attack on Iran impossible. And the 2011 NIE on Iran.
The American people are being scr*wed hard by their own leaders, thanks to the Israeli propaganda machine.
fyi,
The facts do much to support the Iranian position on many of the issues of the day. Emphasis on the facts works to Iran’s benefit. This is especially true now that it has been revealed that the Israeli government was knowingly using false information about Iran’s nuclear programme, disseminated through agents in Aipac, Winep, etc, to deceive the American public (and the US Congress) to set up war with Iran. The FBI has been monitoring the conspiracy.
fyi,
I think a number of fair-minded observers of the appearance of Ahmadinejad at Columbia University admired his handling of the gross disrespect shown him by Lee Bollinger, the president of the institution – - who was acting after he received threats from rich and powerful Jews in New York.
Ahmadinejad should seek to keep the high road morally, and expose the dishonesty, deviousness, etc etc etc that underpins the Israeli propaganda machine in the US and Europe.
Photi says: August 26, 2011 at 12:18 pm
He has a direct responsibility to the security of Iran.
And why should he not use rhetorical devices to undermine US position?
Rehmat,
Why do you say the Daily Mail is “Jewish-owned”?
Today, a bomb blast at the United Nations four-storey building in Nigeria’s capital, Abuja, has killed at least 16 people including the bomber.
Speaking from New York, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon declined to speculate on the motive for the attack, and there was no immediate claim of responsibility.
Could it be that Ki-moon is affraid to spell-out that it could be an early warning from Israel for coming month Palestinian demand for recognition of an independent Palestinian state at the UN General Assembly?
Britian’s welknown Israeli Hasbara organ, Jewish-owned newspaper Daily Mail, is the first one to blame Islamist group Boko Haram group behind the bombing.
In June 2011 – Abuja Police HQ was bombed to assassinate Inspector General of Police, Hafiz Ringim (born 1953). The western media pinned the attack on Boko Haram, a tiny sect of Muslims who want to bring Shria’h law into Muslim-majority states in Nigeria. Jewish media has always blamed the group having ties with Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, Lebanese Hizbullah, Iran and the phony Al-Qaeda – and for hating the US and Israel.
President Goodluck Ebele Jonathan had appointed Hafiz Ringim as IGP in September 2010 to clean-up Nigeria’s most corrupt an inefficient police force which is notorious for kidnapping and armed robbery, sectarian and religious killings, political murders, wanton abuse and extortion of commuters by police personnel on major highways and roads and disrespect for the judiciary.
In 1984, Mossad was involved the attempted kidnapping of Alhaji Umaru Abdurrahaman Dikko (born 1936)- a powerful ally of former Nigerian President Shagari (1979-1983).
In December 2010, Nigerian government sued Israel-Firster Dick Cheney and Halliburton for $180 million bribery to secure a $6 billion worth liquefied natural gas plant contract.
Nigeria’s vast natural wealth of gas which has long been exploited by the multi-national western oil mafia by creating ethnic and religious division among the Muslims (51%) and Christians/Pagans (49%). One of the actor in Nigerian tragedy is the Zionist entity. When the Biafran rebellion, known as the civil war (1967-1970) ended in the defeat of Biafra rebels – Israeli foreign minister Abba Eban (died 2002), publically lamented at the collapse of the rebellion. The so-called “the Republic of Biafra” was recognized only by two countries – Israel and Ghana.
http://rehmat2.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/mossad-hits-un-building-in-abuja/
Fiorangela and fyi,
thank you. you both have reminded why it is so hard to find a critical voice to direct at Iran. The criticism would be intended to help, but there are so many powerful forces trying to bring the IRI down that i often think criticism, especially by a non-Iranian american citizen, is more counter-productive than silence.
fyi, as a Muslim leader doesn’t President Ahmadinejad have some responsibility to separate fact from fiction to lead those muslims out of the conspiracy culture?
Photi says: August 26, 2011 at 11:57 am
The culture of conspiracy among Muslim people pre-dates Mr. Ahmadinejad.
In fact, before he made any issue of the veracity of US version of the 9/11/2001 attacks, there were quite a few conspiracy theories floating around – some by Arabs and some by the Americans and Europeans.
Mr. Ahmadinejad, as the President of the Islamic Republic of Iran, has to conmbat the combined US-EU assault on Iran.
He correctly has identified Shoah and the US version of the 9/11/2001 attacks as weak points of the Axis Powers.
He tried, more than any other Iranian leader since 1979 to improve relations with US as well as with EU states.
He sent letters.
He sent messages.
He publicly stated on numerous times that his government is willing to “..help assist in solving world’s problems” and “to share in its management”.
He allowed himself to be humiliated in public at Colombia University.
It got him nothing but threats and more threats.
There is now nothing left for him to discredit the United States and EU as much as he can in the world.
Photi at 11:57 am:
If it’s any comfort to you Photi, it is my observation across the English blogosphere that more people are incensed at Ahmadinejad’s (alleged) statement that there are no homosexuals in Iran, than with his comments on 9/11.
imo both of Ahmadinejad’s comments should be understood in their proper context. In the case of the 9/11 comment, I suspect Ahmadinejad was probing a soft spot in the West’s armor.
Fiorangela says: August 26, 2011 at 11:56 am
Americans leaers told Iranian leaders in 2006 that unless they went the Libyan way, they would be attacked.
How much more honesty do want?
And when the Iranians did not surrender and prepared for war, US had to back down.
Next came 2007 and the fork in the road – the road to detente was not taken.
At that time, US had the EU to provide the political fig-leaf for detente with Iran.
No such devices are any longer available.
ready fire aim
type post edit
in the 11:56 am post, the last paragraph should not have been formatted in italics; it is not a quote.
fyi,
so now, how ever many of those Muslims who believed Ahmadinejad at the UN are now busying themselves with untruthful conspiracy theories. As I more or less said to Unknown Unknowns, those people, Muslim or not, are wasting their time when their attention should be on matters that might actually matter. Human rights, civil society, government accountability, whatever are orders of magnitude more important than sending those Muslims (who Iran is ostensibly helping) on a wild goose chase.
And don’t give me that crap about the common people. The patronizing is the problem, treat them like children they will act like children. Personal responsibility is a central theme in Islam. How do the Muslim leaders expect to teach personal responsibility when there is so much patronizing that goes on?
Professor John Mearsheimer talked about his book, Why Leaders Lie: The Truth about Lying in International Politics.
“In Why Leaders Lie, Mearsheimer provides the first systematic analysis of lying as a tool of statecraft, identifying the varieties, the reasons, and the potential costs and benefits. Drawing on a wealth of examples, he argues that leaders often lie for good strategic reasons, so a blanket condemnation is unrealistic and unwise. Yet there are other kinds of deception besides lying, including concealment and spinning. Perhaps no distinction is more important than that between lying to another state and lying to one’s own people. Mearsheimer was amazed to discover how unusual interstate lying has been; given the atmosphere of distrust among the great powers, he found that outright deceit is difficult to pull off and thus rarely worth the effort. Moreover, it sometimes backfires when it does occur. Khrushchev lied about the size of the Soviet missile force, sparking an American build-up. Eisenhower was caught lying about U-2 spy flights in 1960, which scuttled an upcoming summit with Krushchev. Leaders are more likely to mislead their own publics than other states, sometimes with damaging consequences. Though the reasons may be noble–Franklin Roosevelt, for example, lied to the American people about German U-boats attacking the destroyer USS Greer in 1940, to build a case for war against Hitler-they can easily lead to disaster, as with the Bush administration’s falsehoods about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction. “ :http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Politics/InternationalStudies/?view=usa&ci=9780199758739
With some of the arguments he makes in this book, Mearsheimer lost some of the reservoir of respect he had built up over the years. His thinking is not probing or brutally objective; should one expect that of a self-styled realist? Instead, one sensed an undercurrent of the need or requirement to stroke establishment feathers and the conventional wisdom. Disappointing.
The whole history of the US was built upon lies.
Photi says: August 26, 2011 at 11:15 am
All these statesmen lie since truth is unpalatable to the common people.
Mr. Ahmadinejad had to mislead in order to protect Iran from US.
Since US has made herself iran’s premier enemy.
There is no other way.
As for lying; I think the typical WASP American lies at least an order of magnitude less frequently that a typical Iranian.
Much of Iranian society – for centuries – was built on lies.
Even today, very many Iranians are living the lie of the Just Muslim Order – as though the creation of such a thing were within the Powers of Man.
But the common people need these lies; otherwise both in Iran and in the United States, people would come face-to-face with the reality of the Fallen Nature of Man and that no political system or organization can hope to overcome that.
BibiJon,
“In the world of cloaks and daggers, ludicrousness sure cloaks the dagger nicely as per your stridency.”
That is a very good point, one i hope to absorb. I have to work at imagining what dastardly people might or might not do.
fyi,
I would conclude that Iran needs to set a better example. The American system is so thoroughly compromised right now that i have not a clue why Iran would want to mimic the lying behavior of the US.
BibiJon, fyi,
That percentage of people thinks there was a cover-up of some sort. It does not say those people believe 9/11 was an inside job. “cover-up” can mean anything, therefore it was a lie. I remember searching on the internet for a couple of hours trying to corroborate the President’s UN speech at the time, but everything i found said nothing about the majority of Americans believe 9/11 was an inside job. He (ahamadinejad) deliberately misinterpreted the statistics to fit the narrative he wanted to advance, a favorite method of Western propagandists to be sure.
Just finished the Scheuer piece
“And one other key thing remains the same. President Obama continues to glibly lie to U.S. citizens, claiming—as did Presidents Bush and Clinton—that al-Qaeda, its allies and those they inspire are attacking us because they hate freedom, liberty, democracy, gender equality, elections and virtually every other thing Americans hold dear. The script of these presidents deftly scares U.S. citizens and ably prevents substantive foreign-policy debate. It is useless, however, for educating Americans about the deadly and growing enemy they face, one that hates their government, not them. There is no better recruiting strategy for the mujahideen in all parts of the globe than to pray for the maintenance of the status quo in U.S. and Western foreign policy in the Muslim world. With Obama et al at the helm, they have little to worry about.”
You can place your bets that in MSMBC’s upcoming special “Day of Destruction. Decade of War” hosted by Rachel Maddow and Richard Engel that the critical issues that former head of the Cia’s Bin Laden unit Micheal Scheuer will not be reported about or even mentioned.
Photi says:
August 26, 2011 at 10:14 am
Photi,
To your point about these words: “The majority of the American people as well as other nations and politicians agree with this view” which you assert is not true, I only have opinion surveys to broaden the discussion beyond gut feelings. The sense I get, is that while “a majority” may be an exaggeration (48% not 51%), it does not seem like a total “lie”, as provocative as it may be to western ears.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_opinion_polls
And, to your other point: “i will readily exclaim the stupidity of Israeli policies, however to think that that stupidity would lead the Israelis to calculate a benefit from carrying out 9/11, with the very real possibility of being exposed for the crime, is just ludicrous.”
In the world of cloaks and daggers, ludicrousness sure cloaks the dagger nicely as per your stridency.
Photi says: August 26, 2011 at 10:47 am
But he did not lie; he threw doubt on historical events that have been abused to advance political aims of Israel and the United States.
Look: in September 2001 a few thousands of Iranians held a candle light vigil for the dead of the 9/11/2001 attacks on US.
In 2009, Mr. Bush was in UAE haranguing Iranian leaders about their lack of democracy from the platform of an absolutist monarchy in southern Persian Gulf; where there were days of jubiliations (in UAE cities) after the 9/11/2001 attacks on US.
Mr. Bush & his government, in advancing what they considered to be the best interest of the United States, were willing to ignore the fact that for days college girls would be entering class-rooms in UAE colleges gigling with happiness about the 9/11/2001 attacks. [And the celeberations...]
Churchill once observed – in the House of Commons – that if Hitler attacked Hell, he would be sure to make a few positive comments about the Prince of Darkness during the next session of the House.
So, if you were an Iranian leader, what would you conclude?
Kathleen says:
“why they hate us” issue. Still promote “they hate us for our freedoms”
The way the country is changing, it won’t be long before that slogan will be meaningless!! Just watch that tactics police use against peaceful gatherings. The sound of march and the loud speakers.. The nut-zies are here.
Jackboots in pittsburgh
http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?21660-Jackboots-land-in-Pittsburgh
fyi says:
August 26, 2011 at 9:48 am
Photi says: August 26, 2011 at 9:21 am
“Both on the issue of Shoah and the truth of 9/11/2001 attacks on the United States, Mr. Ahmadinejad’s intentions were to counter Axis Powers on the propaganda front.
He wrapped himself and Iran in the flags of Islam and Palestine.
fyi,
The President does not need to lie in order to accomplish this task. There is so much in truth that is damning for the Israelis and the Americans, he should never have to leave the moral high-ground to combat the propaganda. By lying, it suggests he is okay with replacing one lie-filled propaganda with another. I do not accept that as a desirable outcome.
“Much of that coverage will tell the American people that al-Qa’ida has been significantly degraded—especially through this year’s killing of its leader, Usama bin Ladin by U.S. forces in Pakistan—and that the United States needs to look for the next threat.”
You can place your bets that in MSMBC’s upcoming special “Day of Destruction. Decade of War” hosted by Rachel Maddow and Richard Engel that the critical issues that former head of the Cia’s Bin Laden unit Micheal Scheuer will not be reported about or even mentioned.
““As al-Zawahiri takes charge, the U.S. government continues to: arm and defend the Saudi police state; depend on oil and debt purchases from Riyadh and other oil-rich Gulf tyrannies; keep military forces in the Arabian Peninsula, Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan; fund and defend Israel; fund and direct a new U.S.-NATO war on Libya; and assist the UN, EU and George Clooney in tearing out the oil-rich southern region of Muslim Sudan and giving it to a new Christian state. In other words, the powerful religious motivation for al-Qaeda and other Islamist groups to fight the United States and the West remains exactly what it was when bin Laden declared war in 1996—Israel, oil, intervention, occupation and support for tyranny.”
And the US MSM still refuses to cover the “why they hate us” issue. Still promote “they hate us for our freedoms” There are a few openings.
Anyone hear Salons Glenn Greenwald on MSNBC’s “Last Word” Glen told the truth.
Clint says: August 26, 2011 at 9:52 am
US & EU policy on Iran is predicated on the certainity of implosion of the Islamic Republic of Iran in long term: say 10 years.
When that does not happen, war will become their only justifiable course.
As I said before, the security and cohesion of the Iranian state requires the deployment of nuclear weapons. This was the strategic imperative in 1999, it only has been made more urgent and more intense since 2001.
And note again that US-EU strategies also assume – implicitly – that war is chepaer than peace. That is, in the Levant, in Libya, in Iran, in Afghanistan, and in Iraq it is always the same story: Go to War first and then worry about the Peace that you cannot make work.
In my opinion, this can only charitably be called strategic incompetence; it is perhaps best be described as pathological criminality.
BiBiJon says:
August 26, 2011 at 9:40 am
BibiJon, I do not disagree with those bullet points. In the first numbered group of the quote i quoted, number 2 is what i find reprehensible, that THE MAJORITY of Americans believe 9/11 was conducted by the US to tighten its grip on the Middle East and to strengthen the zionist regime.
In particular, these words right here: “The majority of the American people as well as other nations and politicians agree with this view.”
This is not true and betrays the President’s intentions. Whatever though, the US is guilty of lying at the UN to start a war which resulted in over a million innocents dying. There is no comparison as to which lie is worse. My concern is that Iran is the total underdog and cannot get away with lying like the US does. It is a power thing.l
” It is useless, however, for educating Americans about the deadly and growing enemy they face, one that hates their government, not them. There is no better recruiting strategy for the mujahideen in all parts of the globe than to pray for the maintenance of the status quo in U.S. and Western foreign policy in the Muslim world. ”
I listen to C Spans Washington Journal quite a bit to hear what some Americans are thinking. I hear many callers actually saying it is the twisted history US foreign policy and US support for Israel no matter what they do often. The word is getting out. Even though Camera (I lobby media watch group) keeps trying to shut down the debate, information coming through on Washington Journal and on the internet.
Are Al Qeada members mixed in with Libyan rebels?
I’ve seen the very large Qods day rallies being held in Iran today on Press TV. Since people in Iran fast during Ramadhan, how do foes of the Islamic Republic justify the presence of so many millions of people on such a hot summer day? They couldn’t have participated for drinks and cakes!
Interesting (and quite plausible) take BibiJon. So the Islamic Republic, just like all other nations, is less concerned about truth and more concerned about self-preservation.
I get it, but by the Iranian politicians showing themselves with such propensities to lie to better play the populist game, it brings their theocracy back down to the level of all the rest of our human systems–flawed. I am certain the Supreme Leader is aware of this, as his views on criticism attest, but those below him, especially so many everyday shias, believe the Iranian government is nothing less than divine.
Anyway, i have not exactly found my voice yet in being critical of the Iranian government, due in large part to the obvious American and Israeli malfeasance towards Iran. But if the Iranian president is going to stand up and lie to the world at the UN, it is not a stretch to assume he is reflecting his own government’s viewpoints. I still contend however that if the government of Iran actually believed the truther theory of 9/11 they would not have assisted the US in apprehending Al-Qaida operatives. If the government does not actually believe it, then why say it at the UN? Okay, he didn’t say it, but the implication of his statement seems obvious. It seems so counter-productive at the international level.
This is very interesting. Tried to post this statement nnd question over at Informed Comment and Prof Cole would not let it go up.
Put it up twice under this blog at Informed Comment “How to Avoid Bush’s Iraq Mistakes in Libya”
Kathleen
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
08/25/2011 at 3:57 pm
Prof Cole not sure why this did not make it up. I posted it earlier. Think it is relevant. Also posted over at Mondoweiss and it made it up and at Huff Po. Do you have a problem with this comment question?
Atlantic monthly’s/ New America Foundations Steve Clemons was on Rachel Maddows several eveinings ago he mentioned how Al Qeada is allegedly involved with the Libyan Rebels. This morning former US Ambassador Marc Ginsberg was on C Spans Washington Journal discussing LIbya. He mentioned the Libyan weapons that many are concerned about falling into Al Qeada’s hands. If it is true that Al Qeada is involved with the Libyan rebels are those weapons all ready in Al Qeada’s hands?
What do you know about this? Confusing
————————————————————————————-
WHY WOULD PROF COLE REFUSE TO PUT A STATEMENT AND QUESTION LIKE THIS UP?
So Al Qaeda was not in Iraq before the invasion and then was in Iraq after. From what we know Al Qeada was not in Libya before the overthrow of Qaddafi. And now according to Atlantic Monthly’s Steve Clemons they may be in with the Libyan rebels. I have heard numerous reports that many of Qaddafi forces weapons are missing? Who is confiscating those weapons?
BTW, off topic, but another great article by the writer of the Asia Times piece….on Iran Sanctions and how they are “Built to Fail”! —
http://original.antiwar.com/yousaf-butt/2011/08/25/iran-sanctions-built-to-fail/
money quote:
“So while the IAEA initially referred Iran to the UNSC over a lack of transparency, the UNSC took that opportunity to slap on additional ad hoc demands: this is like being stopped for a traffic violation and then having your car confiscated for no good reason, other than that you were speeding and can’t be trusted with cars – forever! While Iran is probably willing and able to satisfy IAEA demands for greater transparency, this concession will not satisfy UNSC sanctions that require Iran to suspend enrichment indefinitely.
This is possibly why Iran feels it has little to gain by cooperating with the IAEA at this stage: even if it makes the IAEA happy, the UNSC – and various unilateral – sanctions still be fully in effect. So these sanctions are, in fact, a disincentive for Iran to cooperate with the IAEA: if they are going to be sanctioned by the Security Council anyway, why should they cooperate with the IAEA? “
Photi says: August 26, 2011 at 9:21 am
Both on the issue of Shoah and the truth of 9/11/2001 attacks on the United States, Mr. Ahmadinejad’s intentions were to counter Axis Powers on the propaganda front.
He wrapped himself and Iran in the flags of Islam and Palestine.
He made himself and Iran the champion of the Pan Islamic Muslim cause – Palestine.
He did that to fight Mr. Bush and his constant threats against Iran.
He made them threats against Islam.
In case of the 9/11/2001 attacks, he made a decision to again cause harm to US in the propaganda front when it was clear that US and indeed all of EU states were not forthcoming on the nuclear front or any other issue.
A form of war obtains between the Axis Powers and Iran,
In war, just like in war, all means are permitted.
[This war will end when the cost of US Now-Religious War becomes so high that the US leaders will have to fly to Tehran to establish that US is not enemy of Islam.
Give it a few more years.]
Clint,
The Kahane network is also listed on the US Terror watch list. (See :http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm ,#20 ; see also
Kahane Chai, Kach, Israeli terror organization Notice that the CFR write-up uses the words “extremist” and “militant group” in its headlines and titles to describe Kach.
A few months ago, Israeli author Gershom Gorenberg was on a book tour, stopping at (predominantly) synagogues and Jewish community centers in the US. He told his audiences that the Kahane organization is on the US terror watch list. He also explained that Jewish communities in New York City hold ‘Jewish pride’ gatherings in public parks and beaches in that area. The custom in those events is for people to donate money to ‘buy’ a poster or banner that someone will carry around in the course of the event. Some of the posters that regularly appear at the events advertises the Kahane network.
Why aren’t police in NYC arresting the people who carry those signs; investigating the sources of the funding, and arresting those people, too?
Here’s where a second topic that Gorenberg discussed applies: throughout its existence, from the days of the first immigrants to zionist Palestine in the early 1900s, until today, Gorenberg said, Jewish Israelis have taken the position that laws and rules do not apply to them; their only concern is to build Israel, rule of law will come later.
Gorenberg not only repeated this theme that, he said, prevails among Israeli Jews, he explained how Israel’s government has endorsed that attitude and practice, and incorporated it into official Israeli government process and practice. Israel knowingly and systemically disdains the rule of law. Israel is above the law. And some silly New York city policeman or prosecutor who might think to enforce the law on a member of the Kahane network, would find himself on the receiving end of a charge of ‘antisemite,’ out of a job, or worse.
Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau has scooped nearly three-quarters of a billion dollars into NYC and New York state coffers by imposing fines and ‘settlements’ on banks that did business with Iran, in violation of OFAC, the prosecutor’s office claimed. Do you think an officer of the court who spreads around that much of other people’s money, for the ‘crime’ of doing business with a nation that supports the Palestinian people in their resistance to Israeli oppression, is going to be inclined to arrest Jewish advocates for Israel?
At 7:13 pm on Aug 25 you posted:
“The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights.”
Do you believe that in all its implications, Clint, down to the nitty-gritty of requiring that Israel comply with the rule of law, and requiring that Israel cease its oppression of Palestinians?
If so, what are you willing to do to bring it about?
I’ve been to a dozen or more meetings of J Street, where the group passionately affirms its commitment to Jewish values, and to human rights. The action item at the end of each meeting is the same: Here is the action we will take to demonstrate our commitment to human rights for all: We will march on Washington, and demand that President Obama and the US Congress endorse a two-state solution for Israel-Palestine.
“Why do they hate us?”
Photi,
Thanks for the quotes. Can you please tell us which part of the following you think is reprehensible, incoherent, etc.
Quoting your quotes of Ahmadinejad’s speech:
There remain, however, a few questions to be answered:
1- Would it not have been sensible that first a thorough investigation should have been conducted by independent groups to conclusively identify the elements involved in the attack and then map out a rational plan to take measures against them?
2- Assuming the viewpoint of the American government, is it rational to launch a classic war through widespread deployment of troops that led to the death of hundreds of thousands of people to counter a terrorist group?
3- Was it not possible to act the way Iran countered the Riggi terrorist group who killed and wounded 400 innocent people in Iran. In the Iranian operation no innocent person was hurt.
It is proposed that the United Nations set up an independent fact-finding group for the event of the II September so that in the future expressing views about it is not forbidden.
I wish to announce here that next year the Islamic Republic of Iran will host a conference to study terrorism and the means to confront it. I invite officials, scholars, thinkers, researchers and research institutes of all countries to attend this conference.”
Photi,
Ahmadinejad’s 9/11 remarks are likely calculated to benefit Iran’s security interests despite the vilification his General Assembly speech is guaranteed to receive in establishment media. Talking about a viewpoint which has currency even among a non-trivial segment of Americans, is a 3rd-world-crowd-pleasing, bald-faced insult to US government’s legitimacy which Ahmadinejad probably hopes increases the costs for US government’s continued demonization of his government.
This is in line with his possible motives in making his other speeches about the Holocaust, Israel, etc.
By extending the t’aarof (blandishment): “you’re too nice to be brutes”, Ahmadinejad has managed to get human-rights-lecturing Westerners to asseverate their guilt of perpetrating, financing, or not prioritizing the effort to stop, the Nazi genocide. And, he has outmaneuvered advocates of unlimited freedom of speech in defense of Danish Muhammad Cartoons to importune limits on freedom of speech only on subjects that offend their sensibilities.
If his intended audience had been westerners, then his ineptitude is off the charts. If, on the other hand, he is talking to the ‘Arab street’, then he has given voice to widely shared opinions — he may have made it untenable to be silent, ushering a sea-change in the discourse of the region.
I don’t know if propaganda is the right word. Iran, her government, and her religion is insulted left, right, and center. Ahmadinejad is simply giving as good as he takes. Khatami tried for eight years to take it on the chin, and had nothing to show for it. That is an important historical perspective.
Bibi Jon,
President Ahmadinejad may not come right out and say it, but by the wording it is obvious where he is trying to direct peoples’ attention. It is the same cryptic language he uses to deny the holocaust. Number 2 is just a flat out lie, disinformation from a statistic which shows Americans believe there is more to the story than they currently know. Governments always lie, of course there is more to know, it does not then follow that the explanation given in number 2 is anything but a bunch of, well, number 2.
Clearly he is trying, futilely, to introduce doubt about the perpetrators of 9/11.
“Please take note:
It was said that some three thousands people were killed on the II September for which we are all very saddened. Yet, up until now, in Afghanistan and Iraq hundreds of thousands of people have been killed, millions wounded and displaced and the conflict is still going on and expanding.
In identifying those responsible for the attack, there were three viewpoints.
1- That a very powerful and complex terrorist group, able to successfully cross all layers of the American intelligence and security, carried out the attack. This is the main viewpoint advocated by American statesmen.
2- That some segments within the U.S. government orchestrated the attack to reverse the declining American economy and its grips on the Middle East in order also to save the Zionist regime.
The majority of the American people as well as other nations and politicians agree with this view.
3- It was carried out by a terrorist group but the American government supported and took advantage of the situation. Apparently, this viewpoint has fewer proponents.
The main evidence linking the incident was a few passports found in the huge volume of rubble and a video of an individual whose place of domicile was unknown but it was announced that he had been involved in oil deals with some American officials. It was also covered up and said that due to the explosion and fire no trace of the suicide attackers was found.
There remain, however, a few questions to be answered:
1- Would it not have been sensible that first a thorough investigation should have been conducted by independent groups to conclusively identify the elements involved in the attack and then map out a rational plan to take measures against them?
2- Assuming the viewpoint of the American government, is it rational to launch a classic war through widespread deployment of troops that led to the death of hundreds of thousands of people to counter a terrorist group?
3- Was it not possible to act the way Iran countered the Riggi terrorist group who killed and wounded 400 innocent people in Iran. In the Iranian operation no innocent person was hurt.
It is proposed that the United Nations set up an independent fact-finding group for the event of the II September so that in the future expressing views about it is not forbidden.
I wish to announce here that next year the Islamic Republic of Iran will host a conference to study terrorism and the means to confront it. I invite officials, scholars, thinkers, researchers and research institutes of all countries to attend this conference.”
from here.
To see how allegedly smart experts have no clue about the roots of terrorism, see eg:
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/68160/william-mccants/al-qaedas-challenge
Bob, i will readily exclaim the stupidity of Israeli policies, however to think that that stupidity would lead the Israelis to calculate a benefit from carrying out 9/11, with the very real possibility of being exposed for the crime, is just ludicrous.
Photi says:
August 26, 2011 at 8:44 am
Who, where, and when did a representative of the Iranian government say they “believed” it was an inside job?
If you have in mind Ahmadinejad’s speech at the UN, then lets see what he actually said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzm6urQmi6Q
If the government of Iran actually believed 9/11 was an inside job, then why in the hell were they cooperating with the US in apprehending Al-Qaida operatives? Doing so with the ‘knowledge’ that 9/11 was an inside job would make the Iranian authorities accomplices in the cover-up. Does Iran really want to assist the US in committing war crimes?
The reality is that the Iranian leadership likely does not believe their own propaganda about this.
I can’t believe how easily Americans can be fooled. As for 9/11 it has Mossad written all over it but it took inside help as well. I am afraid we have a lost of Patriots who are blind. They mean well but have lost the ability to think for themselves. Hilter, Stalin and Lein all used propoganda as a powerful weapon to win the support of the people.We have the coporate news media doing the same her.They have been carrying this out for over forty years.
Fiorangela,
your suggestion seems sensible to me — there should be an objective basis for judging which charities/foundations are funneling funds towards militancy, muslim or Zionist.
On that note, today MEK (Congress’ favorite terrorists) will hold a rally at the State Dept:
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/25/mek_rally_planned_for_friday_at_state_department
Do you think AQ can have a similar rally to get themselves de-listed?
CURRENTLY, MEK is a terrorist organization: it may be delisted in the future tense.
So CURRENTLY if these goons gather to protest or whatever they would be a bunch of terror supporters: why does the DC police not arrest the lot and send them to Gitmo?
OR:
Can Hamas and AQ also protest alongside these goons?
Anyone have a law degree here?!
Clint,
should Israel denounce violence, and should the vast networks of American Jewish and Christian zionist organizations that collect funds that support Israeli violence be shut down and its organizers tried and jailed, as were the founders of a Muslim charity?
Michael Scheurer — quoted by the Leverett’s above also has a great blog:
e.g.
http://non-intervention.com/988/interventions-costs-vs-non-interventions-benefits/
“Domestic Islamist violence is the price of U.S. interventionism”
Not sure I could express it more compactly myself!
I wouldn’t say they are despicable, just not as clean as they think they are.
Photi,
to be clear: I think the current regime in Iran is despicable.
Nevertheless, even despicable regimes have legal sovereign rights e.g. to make fuel for reactors and medical isotopes.
As for Ahmedinejad’s statements: I think he is just not a very bright bulb. He may be an OK politician, but not a savvy, informed individual.
He also said there are no homosexuals in Iran. No holocaust etc.
That he is potentially an idiot does not deprive his government from having sovereign rights.
Clint, was Iran being modest when it sent its president to the UN to claim that the majority of Americans believe 9/11 was an inside job? He took a statistic which demonstrates Americans think there is more to the story behind 9/11 than we currently know and interpreted it to mean most Americans believe 9/11 was an inside job. That’s not modesty to me, that is one propaganda trying to replace another propaganda.
Is Iran being modest when it speaks out for human rights when it suits them, and then violates those same human rights when it suits them? I know another country which immodestly does this. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy whether it comes from the US or from Iran.
Photi,
I fully support Turkey, and I see much of what Iran is doing as self-defense rather than a show of force.
e.g. with the alleged nuclear weapons program — Back in 2005 — when we thought Iran did have a nuclear weapons program — the National Defense University looked into what might happen if Iran actually got nukes:
The study is named “Reassessing the Implications of a Nuclear Armed Iran” (google it)
The study concluded that Iran desires nuclear weapons mainly because it feels strategically isolated and that “possession of such weapons would give the regime legitimacy, respectability, and protection.”
The NDU study continued, “[W]e judge, and nearly all experts consulted agree, that Iran would not, as a matter of state policy, give up its control of such weapons to terrorist organizations and risk direct U.S. or Israeli retribution.”
And it said the “United States has options short of war that it could employ to deter a nuclear-armed Iran and dissuade further proliferation.”
Now, in 2011, we know Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program.
The evidence is abundant:
A recent article in Asia Times sums up the situation quite objectively:
http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MH16Ak03.html
Note the quote in that URL:
Mohamed ElBaradei, the Nobel Peace Prize recipient who spent more than a decade as the director of the IAEA, recently told investigative journalist Seymour Hersh that he had not “seen a shred of evidence that Iran has been weaponizing, in terms of building nuclear-weapons facilities and using enriched materials … I don’t believe Iran is a clear and present danger. All I see is the hype about the threat posed by Iran.”
…and:
This document represents the consensus view of 16 US intelligence agencies. Although the content of the new NIE is classified, Clapper confirmed in senate questioning that he has a “high level of confidence” that Iran “has not made a decision as of this point to restart its nuclear weapons program”. [8]
This jibes with the Intelligence community’s 2007 NIE, the unclassified version of which publicly stated that Iran wrapped up its nuclear weapons program in 2003. Recent State Department cables provided by WikiLeaks back this up – for instance State Department officials confirmed that some rehashed IAEA reports of suspicious Iranian activities in 2004 were “consistent with the 2003 weaponization halt assessment, since some activities were wrapping up in 2004″
==============
So I think Iran is being quite modest and simply asserting its rights: it is not really threatening anyone.
*i meant to say they (the Muslim leaders) cannot control Western foreign policy. They will have an effect on Western opportunism by strengthening themselves (as Iran and Turkey are doing).
Right Clint, i think you are misunderstanding my point.
I agree about the causes of all the hate, and i agree that Americans and other Westerners need to figure out how to reign in our governing officials and their delusional ru[i]nning of the world, but from the point of view of Muslim nations, they need to take a different approach. They need to reduce the opportunities for Western opportunism, and the way for them to do that is to focus on that which they can control. They cannot control Western opportunism, but they can control their internal strength.
Peace through strength.
How do the Muslims expect to ever be strong again if they cannot be self-critical or take responsibility for the things Muslims have done? For the Muslims to buy into the truther arguments is to play the helpless victim. The Muslims are absolutely victims in all of this, but they do not have to be helpless.
pirouz,
I ought to have been more precise but I thought it may have been clear from the context what I meant: “Muslims ought to denounce violence *against civilians* in the name of Islam, but it is not their problem alone”
Are you OK with that?
In any case, the point is that this is not so much about religion as about politics: AQ (and many muslims/arabs) do not like US/NATO troops on their lands and do not like US support for tyrants who oppress them, and do not like US support for Israel which indulges in state-sponsored terrorism with arms supplied by US taxpayers, in contravention of our Arms Export Control Act.
Clint;
you say: “Muslims ought to denounce violence in the name of Islam, but it is not their problem alone”
I disagree. Violence is not necessarily bad (unless you are a follower of the great man called Gandhi?). Are we to denounce the French resistence and the partisans who fought against the Nazies? Are we to denounce the republican fighters who fought against the Spanish Fascits led by the dictator Franco?
The problem is not with the “armed struggle” against an armed oppressor. The question whose answer determines whether an armed strugle is to be supported or not is what are the “principles” based on which a group of guerillas fight.
Photi:
“….Muslims to be able to do something about it.”
Muslims ought to denounce violence in the name of Islam, but it is not their problem alone. The main source of terrorism is flawed US foreign policy that is interventionist and engenders the hatred.
To say muslims should do something about AQ is like saying all Christians need to do something about the Norweigian terrorist.
Terrorism is political and not religious — even in AQ’s case. AQ only co-opts religion for political ends.
Certainly AQ’s tactics are WRONG and abhorrent, but several of their political aims are perfectly respectable: US troops out of the middle east and Zero support for mideast tyrants, and zero arms support to Israel that has committed war crimes with our arms — a clear violation of our own Arms Export Control Act.
[I hope the Leveretts will look into why our Arms Export Control Act is not respected when Israel is concerned, in a future post.]
Photi, please see the 3 links I posted towards the start of the discussion.
But here is one from a Pentagon report — the only time the US Govt identified the source of the problem:
http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/ADA428770.pdf
SECTION 2.3:
American efforts have not only failed in this respect: they may also have achieved the opposite of what they intended.
American direct intervention in the Muslim World has paradoxically elevated the stature of and support for radical Islamists, while diminishing support for the United States to single-digits in some Arab societies.
• Muslims do not “hate our freedom,” but rather, they hate our policies.
The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the longstanding, even increasing support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf states.
• Thus when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy. Moreover, saying that “freedom is the future of the Middle East” is seen as patronizing, suggesting that Arabs are like the enslaved peoples of the old Communist World — but Muslims do not feel this way: they feel oppressed, but not enslaved.
• Furthermore, in the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering. U.S. actions appear in contrast to be motivated by ulterior motives, and deliberately controlled in order to best serve American national interests at the expense of truly Muslim selfdetermination.
• Therefore, the dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire radical Islamist bill of particulars. American actions and the flow of events have elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims. Fighting groups portray themselves as the true defenders of an Ummah (the entire Muslim community) invaded and under attack — to broad public support.
• What was a marginal network is now an Ummah-wide movement of fighting groups. Not only has there been a proliferation of “terrorist” groups: the unifying context of a shared cause creates a sense of affiliation across the many cultural and sectarian boundaries that divide Islam.”
By placing the blame on Al Qaida, and not the CIA, Muslim leaders will empower the Muslims to be able to do something about it.
Clint, that is different than saying 9/11 was planned by elements within the US government. Opportunism is a given.
The Next Quagmire: Sanctions and Syria
by Fergus Hodgson, August 24, 2011
http://www.fff.org/comment/com1108v.asp
Why AQ really is winning and we are losing:
WASHINGTON POST OpEd:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-are-we-subverting-the-constitution-in-the-name-of-security/2011/08/25/gIQANnrheJ_print.html
Why are we subverting the Constitution in the name of security?
Exaggerate? Moi???
http://www.voltairenet.org/Disaster-capitalism-swoops-over
Escobaristani slant on ‘Daffy NATO shenanigans.
Photi,
have a read of Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine” — “unknown unknowns” exaggerates but 9/11 was certainly taken advantage of by the neocons to insert themselves in the mideast.
Unknown Unknowns,
“Al-CIA-duh, as the 9-11 Truth Movement would say, is just another tool in the hegemon’s arsenal: a bunch of disposable dupes and patsies created and sustained by the CIA to do its wet work.”
Should we also assume Hamas is a tool of Israel? Your contention that a bunch of Arabs would be incapable of planning something like 9/11 is more akin to racism than truth. Iran should focus on the moral high-ground rather than (un)cleverly trying to match the Americans and Israelis in propaganda. Iran will not win that game, her foreign policy necessarily needs to be more principled if the Muslims hope to lead the world to peace.
Importance of internet for plotting:
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/08/02/040802fa_fact?currentPage=all
see also ref. to Hamburg:
After September 11th, police in Hamburg found eighteen tapes of Abu Qatada’s sermons in Mohamed Atta’s apartment there. British authorities arrested him in October, 2002, but he still wields great authority among Islamists around the world. The imam told me, “It was as if there were black hands behind a curtain pushing these young men.”
Also, although AQ’s bases have been cleared in Af/Pak — there is still the internet.
Let’s not forget that 9/11 was planned from HAMBURG, Germany — not Afghanistan!
I was hesitant to raise that point since we may now be tempted to bomb Germany. ;)
Clint says: August 25, 2011 at 11:11 pm
Because they are Asiatic Muslims and an alien people; US cannot even deal with Mexicans.
US is there now for reasons of domestic policy and prestige.
Clint says: August 25, 2011 at 11:13 pm
The number of direct (against US) public lone wolfer attacks within US has not been that hight; perhaps less than 20.
And since there are more that 1.2 Billion Muslims, one may safely conclude that the problem is managable.
But I agree that US is a worse situation compared to 2002.
And this will get worse, no doubt.
fyi,
I suspect we will see more and more random lone wolf attacks: billions of pissed of muslims have some fraction ~1% who are extremely pissed off, and among that 1% may be a further 5% who may take action.
Answer to question posed by Leveretts: our actions since 2001 have largely been counterproductive. Note: not a waste. But actually counterproductive. We are worse off.
If we will stay in Afghanistan till 2024, why not just declare it a state and let it be the National Guard who will be posted there?
nt says: August 25, 2011 at 10:45 pm
The flaw was in the Grand Strategy.
But that is just my opinion.
I think that not all Muslims are sufficiently angry to take action against the United States.
And likely the United States has counter-terrorism resources to fight a costly and long war of attrition with them.
The danger to US are from 2 directions: another war with another Muslim country and the other any war in or for Palestine.
[You have to accept the limitation of the United States and the European Union in that they cannot bring the war in Palestine to an end - it is over for them as political intermediaries there.]
If the analogy with US Civil War holds – with US being the Southerners and the North the Muslims – we are all waiting for a Dred Scott moment which will turn the majority Muslims into stark raving mad Anti-Americans.
fyi,
In fact I agree with the AQ network is possibly weaker, but muslim anger at the US (in general) is much much higher now than in 2001.
This reflects the US bean-counting approach to problem: yes, we must have a metric and a list of people so we know that we are making progress — but in doing so (e.g. with drones) the US Govt. has pissed off the entire muslim world.
So we will likely get hit by other terrorist groups (not AQ) and by lone wolfs. Is this progress?
There is also a case to be made that AQ is now pervasive, even if weaker.
We have indirectly killed >1 million muslim civilians in Iraq and Af/Pak. Why did this not make news on NYT or WaPo?
The US-led war on terrorism has left in its wake a far more unstable world than existed on that momentous day in 2001: Rather than diminishing, the threat from al Qaeda and its affiliates has grown, engulfing new regions of Africa, Asia, and Europe and creating fear among peoples from Australia to Zanzibar.
The US invasions of two Muslim countries have so far failed to contain either the original organization or the threat that now comes from its copycats in British or French cities who have been mobilized through the Internet. The new al Qaeda leader is still at large, despite the 2nd largest manhunt in history.
Afghanistan is once again staring down the abyss of state collapse, despite billions of dollars in aid, a hundred thousand Western troops, and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. The Taliban have made a dramatic comeback. The international community had an extended window of opportunity for several years to help the Afghan people—they failed to take advantage of it.
Pakistan has undergone a slower but equally bloody meltdown. In 2006 there were 56 suicide bombings just 6 bombings in Pakistan! Compare that to now. Thanks Bush/Cheney.
In 2011, American power lies shattered, US credibility lies in ruins. Ultimately the strategies of the Bush administration have created a far bigger crisis in South and Central Asia than existed before 9/11.
Eight years of neocon foreign policies have been a spectacular disaster for American interests in the Islamic world, leading to the rise of Iran as a major regional power, the advance of Hamas and Hezbollah, the wreckage of Iraq, with over two million external refugees and the ethnic cleansing of its Christian population, and now the implosion of Afghanistan and Pakistan, probably the most dangerous development of all.
Here is the link to the MIT official who calculates >1000000 dead muslim civilians as a result of our war of choice.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12150
William deB. Mills says: August 25, 2011 at 6:19 pm wrote:
“It was surely hard to watch Qadaffi slaughter his countrymen, so I can somewhat sympathize with the decision to use force to help them.”
But did we really SEE Qadaffi slaughter his countrymen, or were we TOLD that Q. was slaughtering his countrymen? I suggest the latter.
In fact, because the US government in all its branches and arms, including media and entertainment, have become nothing but propaganda outlets, it is impossible to know what is really happening, and who is lying to whom and why.
On the surface, your suggestions that “The proper course, it seems to me, would be to emphasize setting a good example first,” seems like good commonsense, but on closer examination, smacks of arrogance, and of a failure to honestly acknowledge the heart of the problem. It is arrogant because the US is demonstrably not in a position to tell others to look at is as a good example: the US kills more, and manages its finances less prudently and equitably, and provides for its own citizens less capably, and intrudes on its citizens more persistently, than those to whom the US considers itself superior; an “exemplar.”
The US, a 200 year old upstart, has the temerity to tell 2000 year old cultures to look to IT as an example, when the US still has not acknowledged its very harmful role in exploiting and betraying the states it now presumes to ‘liberate’?
Clint says: August 25, 2011 at 9:35 pm
Al Qaida is almost certainly weaker now than in 2001.
Consider:
Her senior cadres have been captured or killed.
Her operational base in Afghanistan is destroyed.
Her operatives in other states have been moppsed up.
But during the same time, US has singularly failed to assuage Muslim anger: on Palestine, on Iraq, and elsewhere.
Consider:
The “Valley of the Wolves” -an extremely popular Turkish film and series about a Turkish commando team fighting Israelis who kidnap Iraqi children for their organs and US soldiers who are involved in that trade. And I want you to understand that Turkey is in NATO and thus part of the US alliance structure.
More examples can be found.
I am reminded of the way Northerners in US considered John Brown: deploring his methods but endorsing his aims.
James Canning says: August 25, 2011 at 7:34 pm
No, it all depends on the posture of US forces and their mission.
If their mission is to find and destroy those irregular forces that plot against the United States and her assets abroad (embaasies, military basis, etc.) with special forces; then that is practical.
If they want to stay there to prove a point, it will be lunacy.
US already has demonstrated to the world – that together with EU, she is nevertheless incompetent to produces any peace that follows her wars and incapable of extinguishing wars that threaten others.
All the relevant points have already been made.
William deB. Mills says: August 25, 2011 at 6:19 pm
I think diplomats in US do not have the resources to compete on diplomacy.
They are out-spent and out maneuvered by their betters in US Ministry of War (a.k.a. DoD).
In diplomacy – like everywhere else – you have to pay costs.
US does not allocate the necessary budget for such expenditures.
On the other hand, the bombs and what-have-you are already paid for and thus do not figure in current accont expenditures.
US has made war cheap and peace expensive – for herself and for many other states.
James,
thank you very much — yes just saw it in your truthout article you linked to.
As an aside to folks generally: can we please keep it on-topic of the sources of terrorism just for a little bit?
Seems like the discussion threads are being hijacked towards all and sundry mideast issues. Perhaps those could be discussed in the previous blog entry?
Just a polite request — for a bit, the topic at hand is “AL-QAIDA: IS IT STRONGER TODAY THAN WHEN IT FIRST DECLARED WAR AGAINST AMERICA…AND, IF SO, WHY?”
Why do people think that others hate us?
Irshad
“I think the Iranians really need to bring the dear Emir down to earth for assisting the axis powers game plan especially in regards to Syria!”
Irshad- Do you really think Qatar’s foreign policy is Amir’s to make, or do you think he has any choice other than, to do what the Americans ask him to do, don’t you think he has advisors that tell him his policies are against the will of the majority of his own people, he knows, and he knows if he doesn’t subscribe to what American ask him to do, he will have a regime change by the Americans sooner than he can get a regime change by his own Qatari people, case and point is Bahrain, and Libya, all in all, is not easy to be somebody’s subservient dictator, it is like the Persian proverb we have that says “a stick with shit on both ends” which means no matter what one can’t pick it up whiteout getting dirty.
Jewish Rail: ‘We don’t serve women here’
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/jewish-rail-we-dont-serve-women-here/
It’s silly to compare something which never existed as a militant or terrorist group like Jewish Irgun or others.
“The truth is there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al-Qaeda. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But, there is propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order to drive TV watchers to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US….” Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/whose-al-qaeda/
This is the link to the Unknown Unknowns recommended documentary.
It is Interesting and informative.
The Power of Nightmares Part 3: The Shadows in the Cave – by Adam Curtis
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2081592330319789254#
Clint,
Did you see the report in the Daily Telegraph that the US wanted to keep forces in Afghanistan until 2024? Lunacy.
Irshad,
The emir of Qatar is one of the best-informed and sensible people in the Middle East, regarding how to deal with the various problems and challenges. Iran should welcome good relations with Qatar. He works endlessly in effort to achieve justice for the Palestinians.
I recommend William Rivers Pitt’s “War:Too Big to Fail”
http://www.truth-out.org/war-too-big-fail/1314198655
Piece touches on the numerous corporations with snouts in the trough of idiotic “defence” spending by the US, and endless war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Emir of Qatar arrives in Tehran:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/195750.html
I wonder what the Iranians and the dear Emir will be talking about..?
-Syria?
-Lebanon and the tribunal?
-Bahrain?
-Saudi-Iran relations?
-Libya?
-Palestine – the ongoing murders by Isreal aswell as UN recognition of Palestine?
-Somalia?
-Sudan?
-Iran-US relations?
I think the Iranians really need to bring the dear Emir down to earth for assisting the axis powers game plan especially in regards to Syria!
Lastly, the Pentagon did look into the motivations for terror in 2004:
http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/ADA428770.pdf
SECTION 2.3:
American efforts have not only failed in this respect: they may also have achieved the opposite of what they intended.
American direct intervention in the Muslim World has paradoxically elevated the stature of and support for radical Islamists, while diminishing support for the United States to single-digits in some Arab societies.
• Muslims do not “hate our freedom,” but rather, they hate our policies.
The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the longstanding, even increasing support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf states.
• Thus when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy. Moreover, saying that “freedom is the future of the Middle East” is seen as patronizing, suggesting that Arabs are like the enslaved peoples of the old Communist World — but Muslims do not feel this way: they feel oppressed, but not enslaved.
• Furthermore, in the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering. U.S. actions appear in contrast to be motivated by ulterior motives, and deliberately controlled in order to best serve American national interests at the expense of truly Muslim selfdetermination.
• Therefore, the dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire radical Islamist bill of particulars. American actions and the flow of events have elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims. Fighting groups portray themselves as the true defenders of an Ummah (the entire Muslim community) invaded and under attack — to broad public support.
• What was a marginal network is now an Ummah-wide movement of fighting groups. Not only has there been a proliferation of “terrorist” groups: the unifying context of a shared cause creates a sense of affiliation across the many cultural and sectarian boundaries that divide Islam.”
Here is the view of another CIA officer — Fuller served as Chief of Station in Kabul:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/graham-e-fuller/global-viewpoint-obamas-p_b_201355.html
–The situation in Pakistan has gone from bad to worse as a direct consequence of the U.S. war raging on the Afghan border. U.S. policy has now carried the Afghan war over the border into Pakistan with its incursions, drone bombings and assassinations — the classic response to a failure to deal with insurgency in one country. Remember the invasion of Cambodia to save Vietnam?
– The deeply entrenched Islamic and tribal character of Pashtun rule in the Northwest Frontier Province in Pakistan will not be transformed by invasion or war. The task requires probably several generations to start to change the deeply embedded social and psychological character of the area. War induces visceral and atavistic response.
– Pakistan is indeed now beginning to crack under the relentless pressure directly exerted by the U.S.
– Anti-American impulses in Pakistan are at high pitch, strengthening Islamic radicalism and forcing reluctant acquiescence to it even by non-Islamists.
Only the withdrawal of American and NATO boots on the ground will begin to allow the process of near-frantic emotions to subside within Pakistan, and for the region to start to cool down. Pakistan is experienced in governance and is well able to deal with its own Islamists and tribalists under normal circumstances; until recently, Pakistani Islamists had one of the lowest rates of electoral success in the Muslim world.
But U.S. policies have now driven local nationalism, xenophobia and Islamism to combined fever pitch. As Washington demands that Pakistan redeem failed American policies in Afghanistan, Islamabad can no longer manage its domestic crisis.
The Pakistani army is more than capable of maintaining state power against tribal militias and to defend its own nukes. Only a convulsive nationalist revolutionary spirit could change that — something most Pakistanis do not want. But Washington can still succeed in destabilizing Pakistan if it perpetuates its present hard-line strategies. A new chapter of military rule — not what Pakistan needs — will be the likely result, and even then Islamabad’s basic policies will not change, except at the cosmetic level.
In the end, only moderate Islamists themselves can prevail over the radicals whose main source of legitimacy comes from inciting popular resistance against the external invader. Sadly, U.S. forces and Islamist radicals are now approaching a state of co-dependency.
Excellent topic! Thank you.
Rarely is the source of terrorism ever ever discussed despite the Threat-Inflation industry in DC.
Scheurer is well placed to analyze the roots of terror since he served on the OBL desk at the CIA — in fact, he led it.
Here is what he said in The Hill newspaper:
http://thehill.com/special-reports/homeland-security-january-2010/75531-when-troops-and-cia-officers-die-for-a-fantasy
“The young Nigerian in Detroit and the Jordanian bomber in Khost and his wife have told America’s Marines, soldiers, and CIA officers what they already surely sense, but what their political leaders deny. Both attackers cited motivations that pivot on U.S. support for Israel against the Palestinians; U.S. occupation of Muslim lands; and U.S. attacks on their fellow Muslims. The three individuals’ words echo the components of U.S. foreign policy named by bin Laden in 1996 as the causes of war — which also include U.S. support for Arab tyrants and exploitation of Muslim energy resources — and which polls show 80 percent of the world’s Muslims identify as attacks on their faith.
While it is hard for Americans to hear, we are at war with a steadily growing number of young men and women in the Muslim world because of what the U.S. government has done in that arena since 1945. The current slate of U.S. foreign policies toward the Islamic world generates the basic and most compelling and uniting motivation for our Islamist enemies.
Should some of these policies be changed? I surely think so…..”
Washington, as usual, believes first that it can and should intervene (at the moment, in the affairs of Muslims) and second that force is the proper means to do so. I agree with you that Washington’s decision to intervene in the Arab Spring with force is dangerous. It was surely hard to watch Qadaffi slaughter his countrymen, so I can somewhat sympathize with the decision to use force to help them. But what Washington decisionmakers unfortunately do not understand is that the longer they stress force, the more they open themselves up to backlash, and here is where Washington may once again, as in Iraq, empower al Qua’ida.
Washington decisionmakers will counter with some justification that the U.S. superpower can’t just do nothing. Indeed, it is hard to define “doing nothing.” Is canceling all our agreements with nasty dictators the correct way to “do nothing” or is maintaining them “doing nothing?” When we are giving billions in military aid to a dictator who uses that aid to kill his countrymen, failing to change policy amounts to actively intervening on the side of the dictator.
In short, the U.S. is so big that whatever it does, it influences events. The proper course, it seems to me, would be to emphasize setting a good example first and intervening without force second. Compulsion should be a distant third, and repeatedly justified to and approved by Congress. All that would amount to a great shift in U.S. foreign policy.
Returning from theory to current events, applying the above to compare U.S. policy toward Egypt and Libya is instructive. Having decided against force in Egypt, the U.S. seems pretty much to be climbing into bed with the new dictators, effectively undercutting the popular revolution. At best, Washington’s follow-through in support of the democratic movement seems inept, at worst Washington is arguably trying to destroy it. In Libya, it seems all too safe to predict that once Washington finally stops its direct military intervention, it will mess up the follow-through and we will watch some new dictatorship take control.
Americans just seem to think foreign policy is only fun when we are dropping bombs; the hard work of actually supporting the rise of an independent (that means back-talking, not brown-nosing) democratic regime based on a self-reliant civil society takes too long to hold our attention. If we can’t play for the long run, we should get out of the game.
Bravo. And I again recommend Andrw Bacevich’s article in the September 2011 American Conservative magazine: “An End to Empire – - America cannot afford expansionist ideology”.
The Leveretts:
Iranian leades must also be counted among those that see huge positive benefit coming their way.
Thank God then for “Walid Phares, Bernard Lewis, David Horowitz, Robert Spencer, and the Wall Street Journal, Weekly Standard and National Review—but by naive, well-meaning, ahistorical, antireligious, arrogant and largely Ivy League–trained ne’er-do-wells like Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, George W. Bush, and the editors and reporters of the New York Times and Washington Post.”
And thank God for Mrs. Clinton.
Al-CIA-duh, as the 9-11 Truth Movement would say, is just another tool in the hegemon’s arsenal: a bunch of disposable dupes and patsies created and sustained by the CIA to do its wet work.
For more on the imaginal, see the BBC-funded Adam Curtis’s (of The Century of the Self fame) documentary, The Power of Nightmares, especially Part 3.