Rami Khouri published another provocatively insightful Op Ed in Beirut’s The Daily Star today—“Hittites with iPods: Why Turkey Matters”, focusing on the rising regional standing of two of the Middle East’s “non-Arab” powers—Turkey and Iran—and the decline of a third (Israel). We do not agree with every aspect of Rami’s analysis—it seems, for example, not really relevant to ding the Islamic Republic for not having done as well as Turkey in integrating “genuine nationalism, combined with democratic governance and Islamic values, in a context of clear modernity and secularism” when secularism is not, in our understanding, something to which the Islamic Republic aspires. But, writing from an Arab perspective, Rami makes a critically important point at the end of his piece:
“Many international analysts or commentators are wrongly looking to Iran and Turkey as potential new hegemons or role models in the Arab-majority Middle East region, but these are the wrong attributes or roles to look for. No Arab country shows the inclination to adopt Turkish-style secular, republican and democratic constitutionalism, or the ability to adopt Iranian-style technological prowess and political defiance of the West.
Turkey and Iran, in their different ways, are noteworthy because they practice genuinely sovereign decision- and policymaking—something that eludes, but should entice, the Arab world.”
And that may also explain why, in at least one recent poll of Arab publics, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad emerged as the most popular Arab leader. Interested readers may link to Rami’s Op Ed here.
–Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett
Rehmat,
The process of reconcilation in Bosnia-Herzegovina is moving forward, albeit not entirely smoothly. Getting past mass slaughter is a challenge to be sure.
An historical fact not generally appreciated, regarding the history of the Serbs, Croats, etc., is that after the Ottomans crushed the Serbians in the late 14th century, within less than a decade a Serbian military force was a crucial element of the Ottoman army when it inflicted a major defeat on the King of Hungary/Holy Roman Emperor on the Danube in 1396. In other words, the “subjection” of the Serbs to Ottoman power was to a good degree the work of the Serbs themselves.
James Canning
Professor T.W. Arnold in his book “The Preeching of Islam” has decribed Vatican’s crusade against the ‘dissident’ Bosniak Christians, who refused to believe in Trinity and how over 25,000 of them including their King embraced Islam enmass.
Even after the destruction of the new independent nation under the leadership of Alijah Izetbegovicby by its Christian European countries – killing over 200,000 Muslim men, women and children – and 60,000 raped victims, Bosnia- Herzegovina was rated as the 50th world’s most dangerous country to live in, the US being No. 83 – while Israel was at the very bottom of the Global Peace Index in 2009.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2009/12/07/israel-worlds-4th-most-dangerous-country/
Rehmat,
Yes, the history of Bosnia-Herzegovina is fascinating, especially in the origin of the Muslim community as proto-Protestants that changed faith to obtain protection from the Ottoman Sultan.
Serbs and Croats slaughtered each other with gusto, and they are both Christian, though the Croats of course were “Latin” and subject to the Pope, while the Serbs were “Greek” and Orthodox rather than Roman Catholic.
The Crusade against the Albigensian “heretics” in the early 13th Century is also fascinating though bloody. The Crusaders slaughtered Roman Catholics and Cathar heretics with equal gusto. Their motive had a good deal to do with the seizure of the land and goods of the targeted population.
I enjoyed these photos of the Mahdi Gholi Beyk Bathhouse in Mashad. Hope you do too.
James Canning
Islamic Republic was also the only Muslim country which helped Bosnia-Hercegvina in the 1990s.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2009/01/09/bosnia-hercegvina-living-example-of-wests-muslim-hatred/
Also from today’s NYT:
““I told the United Nations secretary general that an investigation of the facts has to be carried out responsibly and objectively,” Mr. Netanyahu said, according to an official who was in the room. “I am looking into other possibilities.””
OK, I’ll confess that plucking this out of context allows Netanyahu’s second sentence to be given a different meaning from what he may have intended. Even so, can one be faulted for wondering whether that second sentence means what it appears to mean here?
From today’s NY Times:
““We are rejecting the idea of an international commission,” Michael Oren, the [Israeli]ambassador, told Fox News Sunday. “We are discussing with the Obama administration the way in which our inquiry will take place.” He added, “At the end of the day, Israel has the right, the duty, as a democracy to investigate any military activity.”
Can you imagine the sheer audacity of those who suggest that the boarding of a foreign-flagged ship, whose passengers include only foreign nationals, in international waters, is anything other than a domestic matter that ought to be resolved without interference from meddlesome outsiders?
Interesting cartoon by Walt Handelsman on today’s NYT editorial page (which reportedly appeared in Newsday first). It shows Obama sitting at his desk, looking totally overwhelmed and bewildered. A “thought bubble” emerging from Obama’s head reads: “I miss the health care fight.” The reasons are all around him: piles of papers strewn all over the floors and stapled to the walls, with the large-type titles listed below. Notice, above all else, what most of the world considers to be a very pressing problem that nevertheless is NOT among the matters that, according to this cartoonist, Obama ought to be worrying his pretty little head about.
Here’s the cartoonist’s list:
“North Korea Threats, New Banking Rules and Regulations, November Election, Afghanistan, Iraq War, Polls, Iran, Jobs, 9/11 Terrorism Trial, Gulf Spill, Immigration Policy.”
Rehmat,
Georgia should have good relations with both Turkey and Iran. Iran, it will be rememebered (I hope), was supportive of Georgia during the brief war with Russia in August 2008.
Eric,
You are bang on target: when Israel is condemned for oppressing the Palestinians, and world attention is focused on such oppression, the retort is an obviously false contention that Israel faces an “existential threat” from Iran! Total crap.
Fiorangela,
Great post. I especially liked this passage from the first article you mentioned:
“An Israeli friend told me in disgust the other day, that there is an atmosphere of ‘national orgasm’ in Israel about the prospect of attacking Iran. While people are being bombed in Gaza, all Israelis can talk about is the coming attack on Iran. But there is a link between the two.”
A link? A 12-lane superhighway, perhaps? Never, it seems, is the existential threat from Iran greater in the minds of Israelis than when the world’s attention is sharply focused on their treatment of the Palestians.
fellow fans of Manchurian Candidate: the hydrangeas are just coming into bloom.
. . . . . . . .
Connecting dots: the Israeli nuclear submarines that are in Indian Ocean and Persian Gulf
www dot avigailabarbanel dot me.uk/gaza-2009-01-04.html Israel’s Trauma Psychology
“One of the things that is not being discussed much in the media is how much talk there is in Israel about attacking Iran. Word on the (Israeli) street is that an air attack on Iran’s nuclear reactors is imminent.
Israel has been itching for a ‘good war’ for a while now. The botched attack on Lebanon in 2006 was a psychological disappointment that did not fulfil its purpose, and only led to a deepening chasm between the political and military arms in Israel. An Israeli friend told me in disgust the other day, that there is an atmosphere of ‘national orgasm’ in Israel about the prospect of attacking Iran. While people are being bombed in Gaza, all Israelis can talk about is the coming attack on Iran. But there is a link between the two.”
www dot avigailabarbanel dot me.uk/growing-insanity.html Israel’s Growing Insanity
“When a person’s perception of reality is completely out of touch with reality itself, we begin to get an uneasy feeling that something might be wrong with his or her mind. Where is the evidence that the Jews, right now are facing a “real danger of complete annihilation”?”
The Rationality of Irrationality
www dot jeromeslater dot com/2010/05/how-to-deter-nuclear-terrorism.html
The Armageddon Scenario:
Israel and the Threat of Nuclear Terrorism Chuck Freilich pdf
www dot planetarymovement dot org/go/newsflash/%93hold-me-back!%94-by-uri-avnery/ ” ‘Hold me back or I’m going to kill him:’ Israeli children’s lore” by Uri Avnery
http wrmea dot com/press_releases/c-span.html
John Bradey Kiesling on the Moral infantilization of Israel (2004)
“”Anti-Semitism” is the Israeli government’s domestic explanation for all international criticism. Internally, Sharon has exploited Hamas suicide bombings to ****dehumanize Arabs, both Muslim and Christian, for most Israelis.**** Moral infantilization has reached the point where ordinary Israelis do not see any connection between Palestinian violence and Israeli actions. Israeli courts do little to mitigate violations of human rights by nationalist/religious extremists.”
http corner dot nationalreview.com/post/?q=YzExOTNjODM4YmIzNzdiYmVhNTEyYzAxNDhhOWRiNTU=
The Gaza Crisis: Decision Time for Obama by Michael Rubin
“Israel feels itself increasingly in an existential crisis. Not only is Iran nearing a nuclear-weapons capability, but it has become increasingly vogue to delegitimize Israel. In the wake of the Gaza ship incident, Israel is going to see whether it has any allies left who will recognize its dilemma, recognize itssecurity concerns, and support it as the crisis grows. Israel knows it can’t trust Europe. Indeed, Europe finances many of the groups which, if they don’t seek Israel’s destruction directly, nevertheless indirectly support terrorism.
If Obama decides it is in America’s interest to make an example of Israel after the Gaza flotilla incident in order to win goodwill in Cairo, Beirut, Tehran, and Ankara, then he must also recognize that the leadership in Jerusalem is going to conclude that it cannot trust theUnited States to safeguard its security, and that therefore it must take matters into its own hands on any number of issues, not the least of which is Iran’s nuclear program. In effect, if the White House decides to come down hard on Israel now, it is the same as giving a green light for Israel to strike Iran. That is not advocacy; it is just the realism about which President Obama is so fond.”
http www dot genocidewatch dot org/aboutgenocide/8stagesofgenocide.html
The Eight Stages of Genocide, Gregory H Stanton
“Classification
Symbolization
Dehumanization
Organization
Polarization
Preparation
Extermination
Denial
Genocide is a process that develops in eight stages that are predictable but not inexorable. At each stage, preventive measures can stop it.”
Fiorangela,
Thanks for the link to that video. Disgusting.
Looks like the Zionist regime is about to lose more of its allies in addition to Turkey. No Brazil but Georgia….
Tbilisi woos Tehran while Tel Aviv watches
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/tbilisi-woos-tehran-while-tel-aviv-watches/
Time for One Thousand Ships To Gaza!
y’all talking about THIS Caroline Glick?
This is all good, I just hope that Turkey is not setup to be the steam valve on this pressure cooker, that is the only worry one may have?
James,
“Barney Frank on June 2nd was sharply critical of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians in several places in the West Bank.”
Thanks. That’s what I’d have expected from him. The statement attributed to him in the Forward piece, supporting Israel’s blockade of Gaza, did not sound at all like something I’d expect from Barney Frank.
DWZ,
I think Glick is an idiot. But then, there are many journalists covering the Middle East, who seem to be idiots.
Can Glick provide one piece of intelligence the Iranian government has decided to build nukes? The CIA would like to see it, because they have none.
Eric A. Brill:
Barney Frank is not confused. He support all the harsh measure including sanction against Iraqi children which killed more than 650,000 Iraqi before the invasion. He also have done the same against Iranian children. I have left the link, why don’t you read it all but Barney Frank means what he has said. He is a zionist pro Israel, what do you expect.
Look what Caroline Glick an American-Israeli journalist have said:
{Glick has advocated unilateral bombings inside Iran and the killing of that country’s nuclear scientists. Rejecting diplomacy, she has written: “Today, there is only one way to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. Israel must bomb Iran’s nuclear installations. … All an Israeli air strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities will do is set its nuclear program back for a couple of years.”}
How many zionist Jews have do you think so far advocated for ‘nuclear holocaust’ of Iran to kill the population?
More than you think. But the zionist media are not interested to identify the zionist racists but go after Ahmadinejad who said to University students, we must fight against zionism. Then, his words was twisted and circulated 24 hours a day. People of the world are familiar with zionist’s tricks thus knowledgeable people throw zionist media in the garbage bin and do not read them.
http://www.jewsonfirst.org/obsession/glick.html
Eric,
Barney Frank on June 2nd was sharply critical of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians in several places in the West Bank.
Rehmat,
There is no particular reason for Iran to be “defeated” – - provided, of course, it does not find itself the victim of an attack from Israel.
I think Israel has plenty on its plate, just keeping its own operation functional, within the pre-1967 borders. Further foreign adventures would be insane.
DWZ:
“Israel’s blockade against Gaza is comparable to the sanctions levied by the U.S. Congress against the apartheid regime of South Africa in 1986, Massachusetts Democrat Barney Frank told the Forward in an interview June 3.”
Wouldn’t the proper analogy to the Israeli blockade of Gaza be the former South African government’s engagement in some oppressive act against black South Africans? Did Barney Frank really mean to suggest he’d have supported the latter? Or was he simply confused, or perhaps quoted out of context? I don’t think of him as the sort of person who would condone this blockade.
HAVE YOU READ THE LATEST FROM BARNEY FRANK, A ZIONIST JEW, WHO PRESENTS ISRAELI AS LIBERATOR AND GAZAN AS ‘RACIST’. SHAME ON YOU. He said:
Israel’s blockade against Gaza is comparable to the sanctions levied by the U.S. Congress against the apartheid regime of South Africa in 1986, Massachusetts Democrat Barney Frank told the Forward in an interview June 3.
Rebuffing critics who decry the effects of the Israeli blockade on the health and welfare of Gaza’s Palestinian residents, Frank said, “I remember that argument being used against our tough sanctions against the South African regime during apartheid. People said, ‘You’re hurting the South African black people,’ and Ronald Reagan vetoed the bill and we overrode his veto.
“A few years later,” Frank recalled, proudly, “I listened to Nelson Mandela in the Capitol thank us for helping maintain the sanctions because they were so effective.”
http://www.forward.com/articles/128574/
{Arabs are happy to be slaves of west and they will remain this way. They are not doing anything to get out of their hopeless position.}
Watch your language. You must differenciate between Arab population and the Arab puppet head of states. Palestinians and Arab population in general have sacrificed a lot to gain their freedom but due to zionists mass murders, who have come from Europe to Palestine as a settlers who have NO RELATIONS WITH EITHER PALESTINE OR THE REGION due to the fact that they are from Turkic Mogul tribe of KHAZAR who adopted Judaism in 9th century and were living around Black sea, and their Western supporters who supports their zionist project in the region to destroy every single country, few with thousands of years of civilization, Iran, to gain power over the region with its resources under “greater Israel’ where I am sure they will take this wish into their graves. These mass murderers are NOT SEMITE and have nothing to do with Hebrew population of the region who are Semite and related to Arabs who have lived in peace with each other for centuries. Palestinians are in Palestine continually for at least 21 centuries. The zionist mass murderers are colonists who have taken over the foreign policy of the United States and direct US foreign policy with their zionist agents, who are known as fifth column, including Dennis Ross who shit about history of Iran as ‘advisor’ who wants nothing but a war against Iran. The zionist mass media through campaign of lies and deception shapes the public opinion of Americas to have their support for another war and keep the $$$$$$$ coming in for an imaginary ‘US enemy’.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAZmO80dLfE
what industry is Turkey’s economic backbone
Iran & Arabs have oil, of course. Is Turkey dependent on agriculture? Israel has little but strategic location to broker trade & transit. In other words, all Israel’s economic wellbeing is dependent on trust & good relations with its trading partners, two departments in which Israel is in the same drought conditions that drove Joseph to Egypt.
Rami Khouri contradicted himself in his OP ED. He said that Arabs do not want Iranian-style “political defiance of the West” but on the other hand Arabs want “genuinely sovereign decision- and policymaking”.
How is it possible to be a genuine sovereign decision maker without standing up to oppressive west.
Arabs are happy to be slaves of west and they will remain this way. They are not doing anything to get out of their hopeless position – “GOD help those who help themselves”.
{He is mouthpiece for the existing statu qua – the governance of the post colonial puppet regimes and the Islamophobe Orientalists.}
I agree with you.
Khouri is the US government FRONT in Arab world and like other Al Arabiya phony ‘journalists’ hates Iran and does not appreciate the fact that the culture of resistence that has been created in the region is due to so many sacrifices by Iranians and Palestinians and also due to formation of a FRONT by these groups and others in the region including Syria against Arab puppet head of states and their media outlet, Al Arabiya which is a spynetwork for ISRAEL. Turkey has targeted Iran’s popularity among Arab population to gain their trust in order to use it dealing with US to gain more power in the region. Turkey is LOOKING FOR HER OWN INTEREST and is planning to carve more power for herself by gaining control over Palestinian which is close to US interest to be REWARDED. It is interesting to see some of the Arab reactionary and zionist puppet who pose as ‘journalist’ are working for reactionary Saudis media outlet, hate to see Iran is popular among Arab population. These ‘journalist’ are very angry at Arab ‘head of states’ who are useless and all under the protection of Zionist, the enemy of humanity, and ‘non-Arab’ in the region are the main players. Their jobs is nothing but PROPAGANDA AGAINST NON-ARAB COUNTRIES.
Sorry, forgot to post link to Professor Philip Khuri Hitti’s book ‘History of the Arabs’
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2009/08/17/history-of-the-arabs/
One may call Rami Khouri a secular or Arab nationalist intellectual – but in fact he represents none of those groups. He is mouthpiece for the existing statu qua – the governance of the post colonial puppet regimes and the Islamophobe Orientalists. I for one rather take Presiden Nasser’s PR guru Hayykal, who afyer retiring from politics made more sense than when he was in power. Arabs have lost all their dignity and power as result of their ‘nationalism’ and western secularism which are alien to Arab culture.
Islamic Iran has already proven its ‘credentials’ as a democratic state under Islamic Shari’ah since 1980s. Turkey, which was despised by the majority of Arab public for its close relations with Israel and the US – is trying to emerge as ’someone with independent’ foreign policy. One war front, Iran’s performance is much superior than Turkey. Turkey also has the highest foreign debt US$230 billion) among the 57 Muslim state.
After the 2006 Israeli invasion of Lebanon – A Sunni cleric had said that once Iran is defeated, the entire world would be occupied by Israel.
Perhaps, Rami Khouri needs to learn Arab history from Professor Philip Khuri Hitti (Princeton University)……
Bashar al-Assad deserves to be highly rated in the Arab world, and elsewhere. Obama should invite him to Washington.
contrast that US is frequently described as one of the most religious nations in the world.
also contrast that the influence of Christian zionism and Jewish zionism on US foreign policy permits its leaders almost no room at all to pursue the secular interests of the American people.
I agree and I don’t think that most Turks accept secularism. Like most Iranians they seem to support, religious, republican and democratic constitutionalism. However, they are still afraid to say it out of fear that the Army may attempt a coup d’état.
IMHO, in the context of “liberal democracy”, the importance of “secularism” has been WAY over-rated.
Not to mention the fact that the very definition of secularism shows variations.